Where do all the missing Rellies go?

[HollieBlue]

I am looking for Eleaner Tiffen, born about 1859 in Sunderland. I have her on the 1861 census with mother Harriet, sister Elizabeth and brother Alphonso, father Alphonso away at sea. I have traced Elizabeth and baby Alpohnso died in 1861. I can't find Eleanor after that nor can I find Harriet's death and I wonder if all three perhaps died in the same year? By 1871 Alphonso is widowed living with his sister.

Any help will be appreciated - even if it is just to agree with me that the two disapear!

Hollie

[bumblebee]

This is well in the realms of fantasy - but I cannot see Eleaner's birth registration although Alphonso (junior) is registered. There is an Alvina registered.....

Alvina Tiffin, 1858, Q4 Sunderland, Durham, Tyne and Wear, 10a 401

I have only looked on freebmd and not at the complete images so you may already have her correct birth registration.

I cannot find an Alvina on the 1861 census when doing a quick search, so could Eleanor have been known by another name?

I found this birth and considering Harriet comes from Cambridgeshire I wonder if this name was in the family somewhere..

Elvarah Elizabeth Ryan Tiffin, 1851, Wisbech Cambridgeshire,

Don't let me lead you up the wrong path - this is just an outside possibility.

Bumblebee. x

This path is leading somewhere......................................... .

[blue eyes]

Hi Hollie, same as you cant find Eleaner or Harriet even with different spellings.
Is Alphonso (born Wisbeach, Cambs) the same one living in Crossgate, Durham in 1891 with wife Sarah?

Julie

[bumblebee]

That has just made me take a look at the 1871 where Alphonso is brother in law to a John and 'Alvina' McGregor...?

Bumblebee.

[bumblebee]

A Marriage

Alphonse Tiffin, 1873 Q2 Sunderland 10a 988 - Sarah Littlefair on same page.


Also this marriage

Alivina Tiffin, 1861 Q3 Sunderland 10a 506 - John McGregor on same page.


Bumblebee.

[blue eyes]

Looked through death index on Ancestry all indexes there from 1861-1873. The only Harriet Tiffin I could find was year 1863 Dec 1/4 dist St. Giles.

Julie

[blue eyes]

Alphonso's condition to marriage on the 1861 census looks like unmarried to me even though he had been married.

Julie

[blue eyes]

Marriage Alvina Tiffin to William Hall 1873 mar 1/4 dist Sunderland vol 10a page 817

1881 census-civil parish Bishopswearmouth, 20 Page Street

Alvina Hall wife age 21 born Sunderland
William Hall age 25 born Willington Quay, Northumberland occ ship yard labourer
Willm A. Hall son age 3 born Sunderland

The other Alivina Tiffin is on the 1851 census and Alphonso is also listed with her and she managed to get onto the census twice being in 2 different address's.

Julie

[bumblebee]

Yes she does doesn't she? and she is a visitor with Elizabeth Ryan - (that birth registration! 'Elvarah Elizabeth Ryan Tiffin, 1851, Wisbech Cambridgeshire' - I don't know who this is - but is shows that Ryans/Tiffins are connected somehow).

Bumblebee

[bumblebee]

On the 1901 census for William and Alvina (Tiffin) Hall, there is a Jane Robson with them, single and down as Sister-In-Law? - I know it is supposition without purchasing marriage certificates - but Alvina is a fairly unusual name and I would have bet on the Alvina Tiffin/William Hall marriage for this couple - so who is Jane Robson sister in law?


I have followed Jane Robson back to her family in 1891 - Father is a widow.......Class: RG12; Piece: 4135; Folio 53; Page 31; GSU roll: 6099245.

and then the parents back to 1881 - and the mother is HARRIET A........? Piece: 4995; Folio: 130; Page: 35; Line: ; GSU roll: 1342202.

then finally to 1871

.........................Harriet A Robeson 36 The lost Harriet A now a Robson...??
William W Robeson 40
Eleanor Robson 7
Robt H Robson 2
William A Robson 8
Amer Tippen 12 (image says Tiffen and could say Alvira, daughter - so the 'lost' Eleanor)
Elizabeth Tippen 14 (image says Tiffen, daughter)

Class: RG10; Piece: 5008; Folio: 63; Page: 9; GSU roll: 847381.

Bumblebee

[bumblebee]

LO and BEHOLD here is Harriet...........tracking Elizabeth Tiffin from the 1871 census has led me back to Harriet, Alphonso and Harriet.


Right Harriet A Tiffen/Robson is Alphonso/Elizabeth and Alvina's mother.

1851 census

Alphonso Tiffin 3 Mo
........................Eleanor Tiffin 2 becomes Alvina when on the 1871 census with the Robsons
........................Elizabeth Tiffin 4 on census with Robsons
Harriet A Tiffin 27 Married, Seamans Wife,

Class: RG9; Piece: 3784; Folio: 65; Page: 64; GSU roll: 543186.


Could this be why Alphonso with his sister in 1871 calls himself 'Unmarried' instead of Widow?

Whatever his marital status in reality, ie divorced or separated he considered himself single.

Bumblebee x

[bumblebee]

So just to re-cap


Eleanor is really Alvina....

Harriet A Tiffin becomes a Robson by 1871 - we know that Alphonso Senior is still alive and 're-marries', I have not found a Robson/Tiffin marriage - so did Harriet A and Alphonso divorce or choose to go their separate ways?

Alvina and Elizabeth are on the 1871 with their mother and William Wilson Robson.

Alvina grows up and marries William Hall

In 1901 Alvina has her 'step-sister' Jane Robson, living with her and her husband.



So not lost at all - just disguised......lol

Bumblebee.

[HollieBlue]

Hi - sorry to be so long replying, pc went on strike!

[HollieBlue]

Hi - sorry to be so long replying, pc went on strike!

Thank you so much Bumblebee and Blue Eyes, you've given me a lot to think about.

Alvina is a family name and don't know why it didn't occur to me to check that Eleanor wasn't a mis spelling. I need to study the tree again now. Harriet was a Bown and the visitor shown as Elizabeth Evans is I think Harriet's sister, so the name was Bown.

So were Alphonso and Harriet never married I wonder? He is the Alphonso living in Durham with wife Sarah, retired from the sea and keeping a public house. Unfortunately not named on census but we plan a trip to Durham to see if it still exists or any sign of it!

Elizabeth Tiffen was my husbands great gran and I think Alvina must be great gran to a new found cousin. The jigsaw is fitting together.

I really can't thank you enough - and want to kick myself for not spotting the mistranscription - you'd think I'd know by now!

Hollie

[bumblebee]

I think Alphonso and Harriet were married..

Alphonso Howard Tiffin, 1854 Q3 Wisbech Cambridgeshire, 3b 912 - Harriet Ann Bown on same page

So 'if' all this is correct it would be interesting to know what he classed himself as on his marriage to Sarah?

Bumblebee.

[HollieBlue]

Hi bumblebee

This one is a puzzle - but maybe because Alphonso and Harriet divorced - unusual in those days - did he then simply consider himself unmarried I wonder? Or did they both commit bigamy? Are there any divorce records available for that time?

Anyway, thank you so much - now if I could only find where the Italian connection came in - we know for certain it did via another seaman in the family. I've more time to search now I'm on internet at home and must remember to think about mistranscriptions.

Hollie

[HollieBlue]

Just been re-reading my postings - this is the most confusing family! Both Alphonso and Harriet 're-married' but I can find no divorce. Alvarah Elizabeth Ryan Tiffine married in America toWilliam Randolph but I can't find when she went to America nor can I find that Ryan link. As for the Italian link thats supposed to be in family I now think it is a french link. Alvina and Alvarah were both recognised french names as was Alphonso - it's Alfonso in Italy!

I'd love to find the name of the ship Alphonso was master mariner on and if there is a connection between one Thomaas Tiffin who owned a boatyard and at least one ship in Sunderland. I really am asking myself why I started all this!

Oh - and Amar was Alvina and Eleanor was really Alvina - wonder why Harriet gave her names as Eleanor? She obviously like the name since a daughter from her second 'marriage' was Eleanor

But for all the help I've had in here,very many thanks

Hollie