Help to decipher 1841 Census entry please

[Mutley]

Harwell, Berkshire. District 8

HO107/23/14 Folio 4 Page 3 Line 15

Ancestry transcribes the entry as Richard Thorn born abt 1796, living with Jane Stemmers and William and Mary Wheeler, but I cannot find any other site that agrees with it. I also cannot find another site that allows me to search by the citation.

I have been chasing 5 generations of Richards all over the parish records of Berkshire and I do not think this one exists.

Thanks
Mutley

[Geoffers]

The image quality of this entry makes it difficult to read.

There's definitely a William and Mary, then there's a Jane ST(O??)M(A??)(N??) and finally a Richard whose surnmae might be Thorn, aged 43.

I'm not surprised that different indexes given different interpretations.

Geoffers

[Mythology]

"I'm not surprised that different indexes given different interpretations."

Nor I. I've looked at it on two other sites, FindMyPast and British Origins, none the wiser really. I wouldn't disagree with the "45" (but, on the other hand, I wouldn't argue with Geoffers either!) but the surname ... well, looking at the first entry on the page for comparison, yes, I reckon it probably starts with "T", but I wouldn't like to say what the rest is - and if I were transcribing it for Joe Public, I think I'd leave the whole surname as a question mark, I wouldn't be sufficiently confident about that "T" to put it in.

[Mutley]

Sorry I have not replied earlier, either cannot get into the forum or cannot post (server busy) or post and lose it. Hope this gets through xx

Thanks so much Myth and Geoffers.
Although I am no further on, you have confirmed my thoughts exactly and if you two cannot get closer I have not a hope in hell. I need to go down another road.

I can't find this Richard as born in Berkshire 179? or in 1851 or 1861 or his death and I dare not ignore him because if he exists it may change the tree completely. However, some of the family were born in Cholsey and Wallington which is on the old Oxfordshire/Bershire borders so if they went 5 miles west to Harwell maybe some went 5 miles east??? Means I should start looking in Oxfordshire.

I moaned about the price of BMD certificates but parish records on CD are a lot more expensive 'shots in the dark'. Do you remember Myth, explaining to me about Fiche? well the only ones the Portuguese know about are the edible variety. Shame because it would be cheaper to access a fiche reader. Never mind OFHS CD's here I come again ....

Kind regards and thanks again,
Mutley

[Pam Downes]

Hi Mutley,
I presume that you've seen that there's a Thorn at the top of that page, and because he's only a lad, then it's presumably his ma and pa on the previous page. Do any of those names help with a possible connection to this, or your, Richard?
Pam

[Mutley]

Hi Mutley,
I presume that you've seen that there's a Thorn at the top of that page, and because he's only a lad, then it's presumably his ma and pa on the previous page. Do any of those names help with a possible connection to this, or your, Richard?
Pam

Hi Pam,
Thanks for looking. Yes, the previous lot are most definitely mine. Brother and his kids to my Richard that lives around the corner. I have hundreds of them (maybe exaggerating but feels like it, one had 14 kids, who had kids, who had kids....).

Sorry I digress, my Richard was baptised 1807, his father, Richard 1759, his father, Richard 1724, his father, Richard 1698. I feel like the old women who lived in a shoe |biggrin| so where does a Richard b abt 1796 fit into this? I can't let this fellow go if his name is Richard Thorn but he only seems to appear in this census and not in the parish records.

A favourite Portuguese saying is 'mointo complicado!!!' and in any language they are so right |banghead|

[Geoffers]

Was there a survey of the parish in the 1830s associated with the Tithe Commutation Act? Those which I have used only list heads of household, but associated maps do mark the location of the dwelling where the family lived. I appreciate that the Sunny Algarve may not be the best lcoation in the world to try and follow this up - but perhaps see if the local Record Office can assist?


Richard Thorn but he only seems to appear in this census and not in the parish records.
Was he non-conformist? Did he ever go on the parish and if so, do those records survive? (Claims regarding settlement and applications for assistance can be very useful)

Geoffers

[Mutley]

Thanks Geoffers,
I've googled re the Tithes and cannot find a reference to Harwell. The family seemed to be Ag Labs or Shepherds so I am not sure if they would have paid the tithe or the land owner.

Our local (over an hour away) record office is never open and do not answer the phone. I have given up on them for help. Berks and Oxfordshire FHS sites do not seem to mention tithes.

I am sure he would be conformist, all the family were, however, he could be the odd one out. Parish records for assistance are not something I have delved into yet, so I see a whole new learning curve opening up here.

I just wished I knew if this fellow is named as Ancestry have transcribed. I don't want him, or need him and would dearly love to give him away. :D

Regards Mutley

[Geoffers]

I've googled re the Tithes and cannot find a reference to Harwell. The family seemed to be Ag Labs or Shepherds so I am not sure if they would have paid the tithe or the land owner.
I wouldn't rely on search engines because not all such records are indexed online - contact the record office to find out what they have - Certainly the Centre for Oxfordshire Studies has staff who are very helpful and spend a good deal of time on the phone answering queries, I haven't been to the ORO for a while now, but when last thre they too were helpful.

As to ag.labs, my lot were as poor as church mice, but the superb survey and map pinpoint exactly where they lived in the village, one cottage no longer stands, but the others are still there.

Geoffers

[Ozgirl:]

Hello there, could somebody explain about how to access these surveys and maps? I have been sitting here half way round the world trying to conjure up a mental picture of my "oldest folks" going about their lives, without much success I might add.
My crew (one line anyway) lived Coventry Disctirct, Warwickshire then moved to Hucknall Torkard in Notts (coal miners). Where should I look for that info, can anyone help?
Many thanks for any ideas.|book2|

[Mutley]

Hello Ozgirl,
This original thread was in the Berkshire forum section so I would imagine that only people with an interest in this area would look here.

What you need to do is to start a new thread in
Warwickshire county-wide forum (http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=141)
giving the names and dates that you have.

And...... another new thread in
Nottinghamshire county-wide forum (http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=116)
with their names and dates.

This means that when people come onto the forum they mostly look first at the threads in the area they have knowledge of or have an interest in. You never know someone may well open your Notts thread and be a distant cousin or share the same family past in some way. If not they will certainly be able to tell you where is the best place to get help.