Byard Family

[lisabyard]

Hi,

This is my first attempt at a post and i am hoping some kind person out there can possibly help me.

I am looking at finding anything i can on my father's grandfather, Andrew Byard (possibly from Wirksworth, but not sure).
I know he had several chikdren, one of whome being my grandfather Francis (frank Byard), Frank's mother was Lillian Ogden but on searching the census records for andrew byard, it throws up very little , the main family being andrew byard son of thomas and mary...however this Andrew married someone else.

I have not yet mastered searching marriage records....so could Andrew have remarried?

Sorry for being vague here by the way.

Thanks

[Trish]

Could you attach some dates to your names? Knowing what decades you are looking in might help someone find information for you. For example, do you know when your grandfather, Francis, was born or where?
Regards,
Trish

[Barbara Wilkinson]

Have you seen this website? I came across it recently when rooting around on the web looking for Derbyshire records.

www.wirksworth.org.uk (http://www.wirksworth.org.uk)

Might not be any use, but there are Byards mentioned in the database, including some with the names Francis and Andrew. Might be worth a look ...!

[giveover]

Have you seen Andrew Byard born abt 1872 Wirkworth,Derbyshire.

Parents are Francis and Rachael on 1881 and 1891 census.



Giveover

[lisabyard]

hi

Thankyou for all your replies.

My grandfather was born the matlock area in 1915, he had several older siblngs. I have found birth refs for 3 of them, their mother definately stated as ogden who is my grandfathers mother..lillian ogden.
i know my grandfathers oldest brother was herbert but his birth ref does not give a mothers name.


I have found 2 andrew byards who are possibly my grandfathers father....one being the one i mentioned in my post and one being the one giveover mentioned.

Firstly, the one i mentioned................

he married hannah ward in 1904 and their eldest child was herbert.

secondly the one giveover mentions....

he married alice luisa in 1892 and had 4 children, none of whom ring a bell.

i CAN not find a andrew byard marrying a lillian ogden.....


HELP.

sorry for being vague again but i really am lost

regards

lisa

[Peter Goodey]

i know my grandfathers oldest brother was herbert but his birth ref does not give a mothers name.

Then get the birth certificate!

[Peter Goodey]

My grandfather was born the matlock area in 1915
I've just had a quick scan through the GRO index and can't spot the birth of a Francis Byard in 1915. I can see one in the March quarter of 1916 which might possibly be relevant but with a different mother's name.

Can you shed any light please?

[Peter Goodey]

FreeBMD has...

Births Jun 1917
Byard Lilian M Ogden Belper 7b 1081

Assuming there's something significant about Belper, and turning back to 1915, although there's no Francis BYARD, there is the birth of a Francis B OGDEN (mother's name OGDEN).

Might this be relevant or just coincidence?

Lisa?

[lisabyard]

Hi

Thanks for your help its much appreciated.

Firstly, i have already sent for Herbert Byard's birth certificate.

Secondly, the birth ref of Lillian Byard you found is indeed my grandfathers sister...i already found this thankyou.

Thirdly, i have my grandfather's birth certificate....born 29 may 1915, Mother Lillian Ogden, father Andrew Byard. BUT i could not find his birth ref either.

Maybe the birth ref for ogden you found WAS him...but his birth certificate says BYARD. is this possible????????????????

as i say, i am sooooooooooooo confused. xxx

[Wirral]

How exactly is the mother's name given on the birth certificate? If the parents were a married couple, then the mother's name should be given as "Lilian BYARD, formerly OGDEN" and the child's surname would be listed under BYARD in the GRO index. If the parents were not married, then that could mean that the mother's name would be listed just as "Lilian OGDEN" and the child's name would be listed under OGDEN. The actual GRO index entry does list him as "Francis B. OGDEN, mother's maiden name OGDEN". That could also explain why you can not find a marriage.

[Wirral]

Your query highlights one of the peculiarities of a birth certificate from the General Register Office - it does not actually give the surname of the child! There is a space for the "Name, if any" of the child, but I have only ever seen the forenames listed there. The next 2 boxes are for "Name & surname of father" and "Name, surname & maiden surname of mother". Sometimes, a previous surname from an earlier marriage may be listed for the mother, eg "Mary Brown, late White, formerly Smith" - for a Mary Smith who married a Mr White, then a Mr Brown.

Who registered the birth?

[Peter Goodey]

Dare I guess, Lisa, that you're not used to looking at birth certificates?

I'll bet that the birth certificate reads "Column 2 (Name): Francis Byard". Am I right?

Column 2 shows forenames only and does not show the surname!!!

And the mother's name is simply "Lilian Ogden"?

[lisabyard]

hi

to clarify...the birth certificate for frank byard reads as follows.........................

1. where and when born.....29th may 1915, 4 lime tree road matlock

2. name, if any.....Francis Bryan

3. sex...male

4. name and surname of father......Andrew BYARD

5. name, surname and maiden name of mother.......Lillian Ogden

6. occupation of father.....landworker

7. signature, description and residence of informant.......Andrew BYARD, father, 4 lime tree rd, matlock.

8.when registered........17 june 1915.




I DO know that this means that lillian and andrew were unmaried at the time of franks birth....so i looked for other children and a marriage AFTER 1915...i found 3 more children...all father BYARD...birth certificates show lilian BYARD as formerly OGDEN. However,,,,there is NO marriage for ANdrew and Lillian.

I know my grandfather had more siblings older than himself and as i said in my first post..........the only feasable Andrew Byard i can find was married to hannah ward in 1904...but i can not find a death for her.

I have lots of information on this Andrew Byard but i guess the BIG question are is this the SAME andrew BYARD who is my great Grandfather???????????????????????

once again thanks for all your help. and i realise thta SINCE I WROTE MY FIRST POST MONTHS AGO I HAVE since obtained birth certificates etc.

regards

lisa

[Peter Goodey]

there is NO marriage for ANdrew and Lillian
I'll take your word for that - at some stage they started to pass themselves off as married.

It might be interesting to check quite a long way forward through marriages in case they needed to wait for a divorce or death of an earlier wife. I wonder whether they ever married.

Do you have the earlier Andrew Byard marriage certificate?

[lisabyard]

i have checked marriages right the way until 1925.

and no i do not have the earlier marriage certificate...i will send for it but i will still be in doubt as to if its my andrew byard.

i too am thinking they never married and just passed themselves off as married.

oh what a riddle eh?

[Wirral]

Do you know where your Byards are buried? Are any of them in family graves or are they in public graves? If in family graves, are there any memorial inscriptions? Any idea where & when your g,grandparents Andrew Byard & Lilian Ogden died? Their death certificates may also give clues. The death certificate will give the age at death, which would be useful to work out if the Andrew who married Hannah Ward is "your" Andrew.

Also, what were the occupations of family members at that time? Have you looked at trade directories or electoral registers to see who was living at the addresses? Do the names of the Byard/Ogden children follow a similar pattern to later ofr earlier generations?

[Peter Goodey]

Lisa

Look at these two births...

Births Mar 1910
OGDEN Jessie Byard Belper 7b 65

Births Sep 1911
OGDEN Violet Ogden Belper 7b 1326

If you have those birth certificates, or if you get them, you may with luck have one or two addresses.

These addresses may be enough to allow access to the 1911 census. If the man and woman were living together, the census data may provide the information you're looking for. Not a cheap service but well worth it if you can get a definitive identification of Andrew Byard.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/1911census/

[Wirral]

Even more interesting perhaps:

Births:
Herbert B. OGDEN, March 1913 Belper 7b 1212, mother OGDEN
and possibly
Albert Henry B. OGDEN, June 1906 Belber 7b 682, mother OGDEN

[Peter Goodey]

Interesting perhaps.

The names I posted were specifically chosen for their relevance in locating the household in the 1911 census.

[lisabyard]

Hi

Thankyou all soooo much for your help...i will definately get those birth certificates and look into contacting the NA for the census info.

I am in somewhat of an awkeard situation with my Byards as my parents divorced when i was very young and have only in the last few months been in touch with my father ...so i do not know much atall about his family, as in where they are buried etc...and what i DO know is information that has been difficult to get hold of.
So i realise i have been somewhat vague in my pleas for help and i am so grateful for all of your help.

It is certainly a revelation that all these children were registered as Ogdens,

once again

THANKYOU

Lisa xx

[lisabyard]

one more point to add...

I know that Andrew Byard was deceased at the time of my grandparents wedding in 1938.
On their marriage certificate , franks' father is listed as Andrew Byard, Landworker, Deceased.

[Wirral]

Only 2 Andrew BYARD deaths listed on the GRO index 1923 - 1938:
Dec Q 1933, Belper 7b 593, age 63.
Mar Q 1936, Chesterfield 7b 990, age 51.
Either of these could be your g,grandfather. The one in Chesterfield is probably the son of Thomas & Mary, & the one in Belper is probably the son of Francis & Rachel. Although the latter is quite a bit older, his family contain similar names to yours - eg, Francis, Andrew, Herbert. Francis Byard married Rachel Maskery, March Q 1858, Belper 7b 542.

You will just have to find more info out from your father's family, or take a chance & order the certificates & hope that the informant's name or the home address of the deceased will help you to sort out which Andrew is yours. They are probably related to each other anyway. :)

[Peter Goodey]

...to sort out which Andrew is yours
This is why she needs the 1911 census data.

[lisabyard]

hi

thanks for all your help.

sorry i havent been in touch as i have had no internet for a couple of weeks.

i will keep you all updated

many many thatnks all xxxxxxxxxxxx