Naval Brigades in the Boer War

[Geoffers]

Although a land war, those with Naval ancestry may find that one of their family fought in this war, landing with one of the Naval Brigades in support of the army.

Two interesting books in respect of this have been printed by the Naval & Military Press.

'Naval Brigades in the South African War 1899-1900' by Surgeon T T Jeans

'With the Naval Brigade in Natal 1899-1900' by Lieutenant Burne R.N

Both provide detailed accounts of the actions in which the brigades were involved and have lists of those mentioned in despatches , those who received medals/awards for service and promotions. I'm happy to do lookups for specific people.

Geoffers
Charlbury, Oxfordshire

[Dolly]

Hi Geoffers

I read your post about naval brigades in the Boer War with interest.

I have been "hunting down" my husband's grandfather for the past 3 years. All based on family lore. Different members of the clan tell slightly conflicting stories. They agree that he was in the Boer War + WW1, disagree over wether he served in the Royal or Merchant Navies. I have found him in WW1, though no service record survives, he was in the army.
If in the Royal Navy he was discharged 1908, the year of his marriage. His name was Charles William Edwards, I know not from where. He was born in either 1875, according to the age his family thought he was when he died or c1882 according to his marriage certificate. Could he be mentioned in your books? I don't think that he had a high rank.

[Geoffers]

I have been "hunting down" my husband's grandfather for the past 3 years.....Different members of the clan tell slightly conflicting stories. They agree that he was in the Boer War + WW1, disagree over wether he served in the Royal or Merchant Navies. His name was Charles William Edwards

Hello
I've had a browse through the index I've made and can find no trace of him - sorry. Your best bet is to first of all try the Medal Rolls at TNA, Kew look in document class WO100. If he served in South Africa this should identify him and his unit - if he was RN, you can then search the service records.

Geoffers
Charlbury, Oxfordshire

[Dolly]

Thanks for looking anyway Geoffers, I have his details from the medal cards WW1 no service record though

[Geoffers]

Thanks for looking anyway Geoffers, I have his details from the medal cards WW1 no service record though
No service record is not unusual for WW1 as most were damaged/destroyed by fire in WW2.

The medal rolls in WO100 are specifically for the South African (Boer) War and different to those for WW1 .

Geoffers

[familyfriend]

Hi Geoffers,

I have been researching my family tree and found out that my wife's Grandfather served on the HMS Terrible and was present at the relief of Ladysmith. His name was Sidney Ratcliff and he appears on page 138 of the book 'with the naval brigade in natal'.
I will now be trying to source the other book you mentioned 'Naval Brigades in the South African War 1899-1900' by Surgeon T T Jeans.
In the meantime is it possible for you to check to see if Sidney is mentioned in this second book?
I have Sidney's RN service record which covers the years from 1896 to 1909 and it shows he served on the following ships/bases.
St Vincent, Pembroke, Terrible (1898/1902), Wildfire, Dominion, Vernon and Ganges.
In 1909 he was transferred to the officers section and this is where the record ends.
Where can I find the remaining years of service?
Is the WO100 medal rolls searchable online?
I am sure he also served in WW1.

Many thanks for any info you may be able to supply.

All the best,

Paul.

[Geoffers]

I will now be trying to source the other book you mentioned 'Naval Brigades in the South African War 1899-1900' by Surgeon T T Jeans.


In the meantime is it possible for you to check to see if Sidney is mentioned in this second book?
I'm just about to take my dogs out for a walk. But when I return it will be a good excuse to sit down with a cuppa whilst I check for you, I'll let you know if I find owt.

continued....

[Geoffers]

In 1909 he was transferred to the officers section and this is where the record ends. Where can I find the remaining years of service?
The quickest way is to find a library which has a run of 'The Navy List' I have a copy for August 1914 and will look in that for you later to see if he is mentioned.

Other than that, his service as an officer is probably held at The National Archives (TNA) at Kew.
Have a browse through TNA's researcfh guide:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=287


Is the WO100 medal rolls searchable online?
No, it's at TNA

Geoffers

[Geoffers]

Further to my last two replies:

I can find no mention of Sidney Ratcliff(e) in 'Naval Brigades in the South African War'.

August 1914 Naval List - no trace of Sidney Ratcliff(e) in either the active list, or the RNR and RNVR lists. The only Ratcliffs listed being:

Francis J Ratcliff - Lt
John P Ratcliff - Staff Paymaster

Geoffers

[familyfriend]

Hi Geoffers,

Many thanks for all your info and look ups.

I have found 'Naval Brigades in the South African War 1899-1900' by Surgeon T T Jeans in the Navel and Military Press and have ordered it.
At the moment I am waiting to receive 'COMMISSION OF HMS TERRIBLE 1898-1902' by G. Crowe from the same site.
When my Father-in-law was alive I can remember him talking about his Father, Sidney and the 'Boxer Rebellion' in China. So after my Boer war research I will be crossing the world to see what he got up to there.

Sidney was born in 1881, so when WW1 began he would have been 33 yrs. This war consumed great numbers of men so I thought he would have been re-called or enlisted in some way. A bit more research here I think. Looks like a visit to TNA is on the cards now.

Will keep you posted if I find out anything interesting.

All the best,

Paul.

[morsey]

you may wish to know the following info regarding the naval brigades - my grandfather, walter edward morse entered the navy in 1898 as a 21 year old and served on a number of ships including HMS Terrible as a stoker. He is mentioned in "the commision of HMS Terrible" book as being on one of the naval brigades and then being posted with the ship to the Boxer Rebellion. We have medals for both expeditions.
earlier this year i determined that the field gun competition was still being fought out, albeit in a much more restricted manner, and contacted the Naval Base, Portsmouth to see if my father and i could visit to watch them practice as we were not able to see them in competion on June 10/11th. This was to be a surprise birthday present for my father but as there was a delay in their reply i had to buy him something else anyway! This they duly agreed to and we were guests of honour inside portsmouth naval dockyard and sat with the naval base commodore and the managing director of Vosper Thornicroft who had allowed room for the team to practice within their new factory at PND. The Navy made a presentation to us and the assembled officers and ratings were very interested in the artifacts that we have of my grandfathers time in service including his service record. A memorable day.
we then went to HMS Warrior where we met a engineer who looks after the facilities on board who had also served as a stoker in the 60's and 70's. he has been out to Natal over the last 5 years or so and with a group of enthusiasts carried out archaeological restoration on the hills where the guns were actually dragged up to then bear down on the Boers. i hope to join this group, money permitting, to see the terrain and country that my grandfather visited.

[Dolly]

That is fascinating Morsey. You must have worked very hard to find out all that information, and what a wonderful present for your father.

I am pretty sure that I have found my husband's grandfather's naval record and, if I have the correct one, he was not in the Boer War.

I have a list of the ships that this man served on and will investigate where they served when I have the time.

Thank you for your reply

[morsey]

below are the ships that my grandfather served on and the dates. in looking into the detail he undoubtedly reported to Victory, which was still moored in portsmouth harbour, but was then sent to one of the many training/accomodation hulks that were attached to it.
HMS Victory 15/02/98 – 17/12/98
HMS Terrible 18/12/98 – 31/03/99
HMS Terrible 01/04/99 – 24/10/02 (South Africa Grant paid)
HMS Duke of Wellington 25/10/02 – 20/07/03 (China Grant paid)
HMS Warrior 21/07/03 – 19/08/03
HMS Duke of Wellington 20/8/03 – 30/09/03
HMS Fire Queen 01/10/03 – 09/10/03
HMS Iris 10/10/03 – 13/12/04
HMS Gibraltar 14/12/04 – 29/05/05
HMS Victory 30/05/05 – 14/07/05
HMS Royal Arthur 18/07/05 – 14/05/06
HMS Euryalus 15/04/06 – 09/09/07
HMS Victory 10/09/07 – 01/10/07
HMS Hecla 02/10/07 – 14/10/09
HMS Crescent 15/10/09 – 18/10/09
HMS Venerable 19/10/09 – 10/02/10
HMS Victory 11/02/10 – 15/02/10

his service record is a social/historical document and as with all of these you have to read between the lines. he was a second class rifle shot and first class at side arms. i have a photo of anti-boarding training being carried out on the fore deck. undoubtedley the sort of thing that a stoker would have been called upon to support. also the way that he went up the promotion tree only to fall foul of drink and end up in cells!!! first for 5 days, then 7 and finally 14 days when he was on hecla a torpedo depot ship. he presumably got the message then as he only had 4 months to go and all of this time in the cells was added to his final time served!!! at 5' 4" i would guess that his height didn't help his temper!!

[Dolly]

Morsey
I obtained the naval service record of my husband's grandfather off the National Archives online service.

How do you get all the detail that you seem to have?

[morsey]

hi dolly,
i have my grandfathers original service record which is written on waxed parchment. supply me your e-mail address and you can have a copy for info if you wish.
we also have his "home made" leather dice cup and dice. his sail and general purpose needles and knife in an OXO tin of the period. his sail makers "palm". and photos of him at various times during his service and since. my father did have his tiddly box but that was used as a toy box long before it was realised how important it was. plus his cap tally for HMS Terrible.
morsey

[matownsend]

Not sure if I'm in the correct place for contacting you but I'd be extremely grateful if you could check your books for my Grandfathers name please.
He was Albert George Skedgell and served with the Naval Brigade during the Boar War. His service number was 188766 and he served on HMS Doris.
From what I have been told he was the most decorated man in the West Country with seven clasps to his medal. Belfast, Diamond Hill, Johannesburg, Driefontein, Paardesberg, Modder River and Belmont. I do have his service records and a photograph of his medals.
Many thanks Margaret



Although a land war, those with Naval ancestry may find that one of their family fought in this war, landing with one of the Naval Brigades in support of the army.

Two interesting books in respect of this have been printed by the Naval & Military Press.

'Naval Brigades in the South African War 1899-1900' by Surgeon T T Jeans

'With the Naval Brigade in Natal 1899-1900' by Lieutenant Burne R.N

Both provide detailed accounts of the actions in which the brigades were involved and have lists of those mentioned in despatches , those who received medals/awards for service and promotions. I'm happy to do lookups for specific people.

Geoffers
Charlbury, Oxfordshire

[neil1821]

"I have been researching my family tree and found out that my wife's Grandfather served on the HMS Terrible and was present at the relief of Ladysmith. His name was Sidney Ratcliff and he appears on page 138 of the book 'with the naval brigade in natal'.
I will now be trying to source the other book you mentioned 'Naval Brigades in the South African War 1899-1900' by Surgeon T T Jeans.
In the meantime is it possible for you to check to see if Sidney is mentioned in this second book?
I have Sidney's RN service record which covers the years from 1896 to 1909 and it shows he served on the following ships/bases.
St Vincent, Pembroke, Terrible (1898/1902), Wildfire, Dominion, Vernon and Ganges.
In 1909 he was transferred to the officers section and this is where the record ends.
Where can I find the remaining years of service?
Is the WO100 medal rolls searchable online?
I am sure he also served in WW1."

Having just come across this thread, I have the Boer War medal rolls for the Royal Navy & Marines.

Ord. S. Ratcliffe (189570) HMS Terrible received a 2-clasp QSA for Tugela Heights and Relief of Ladysmith. He also received the China 1900 medal with clasp for Relief of Pekin as an Able Seaman (AB)

[ladysmith]

The 'double relief' medal combination with clasps for the Relief of Ladysmith and Relief of Pekin is very rare. The only unit to qualify for this combination was HMS Terrible and even them only 88 men qualified.

I can also add that Ratcliffe was mentioned in despatches (MID) for the Ladysmith campaign. Like most of the men from HMS Terrible he served with the big naval guns which were hauled up to the front. In South Africa he served with No. 1 12 Pounder Gun under Lt. Burne and in China with No. 4 12 Pounder Gun.

Incidentally the 'double relief' combination and his MID make his medals very valuable. Do they survive within the family?

Regards, David

[parkesy]

Geoffers, I have just seen this thread. Next time you have some spare moments, would you be able to have a look through these books for Thomas Webb Shepheard? I'm still not sure if he was there or not but at the moment, anything is possible

[Geoffers]

Geoffers, I have just seen this thread. Next time you have some spare moments, would you be able to have a look through these books for Thomas Webb Shepheard? I'm still not sure if he was there or not but at the moment, anything is possible

I'll have a look - but have you downloaded his service record in the RN to confirm where he was serving in the Navy?

[parkesy]

I'll have a look - but have you downloaded his service record in the RN to confirm where he was serving in the Navy?

Still waiting on that one. I made a stupid mistake and requested his info from the wrong doucment |blush| I'm trying to request it from the right document as I type but "Digital Express: unavailable at this time as the document is in use by another" |banghead|

[Geoffers]

On this thread (http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36070)you mention:

"In 1901 he was self employed
In 1891 he was a pork butcher
In 1889 he was in the Marines
In 1881 he was at school"

Which means that he won't have been in either Boer War.

[parkesy]

Doh! I can't see the wood for the trees! Thank you very much for pointing that one out |hug|

I can't believe I didn't notice