Brackenbury Family "Plough Inn", Horbling

[Kavik]

Hello all,

I'm helping a very good friend research her family history/genealogy and it apparently leads to Lincolnshire.

She is descended from Alice Brackenbury (born 13.OCT.1875), daughter of Hubert Brackenbury and Sophia _?_.

The Brackenbury's owned the Plough Inn, which, as we understand it, still stands and is now owned by the parish counsil.

We are trying to get this line further back but are not having a great deal of luck.

We do know that Alice Brackenbury was the daughter of Hubert Brackenbury who was Christened 12.FEB.1832 in Great and Little Hale, Lincolnshire.

He married a Sophia (last name unknown) and six (known) children: Richard, Mary, Alice, Hubert, Florence, and Albert. My friend is descended from Alice who married in June of 1903 to a James William Firman.

Hubert (who married Sophia) was first of four (known) children of William Brackenbury and Sarah.

The other children were - Elizabeth, Angelina, and Mary.

Any information on getting this line further back would be most appreciated!!!

Thanks very much -

Kavik
Manchester, NH - USA

[janbooth]

How about this marriage via FreeBMD:

A Hubert BRACKENBURY married in the March qtr 1872 at Marylebone registration district, volume 1a, page 751. One of the other names on the page is shown as Dorothy Sophia SHORT. There is a baptismal record on the IGI of a Dorothy Sophia SHORT on 2 December 1849 at Billingborough, Lincs, father Joseph mother Dorothea which fits in pretty well with the 1881 census information of Hubert & Sophia and family in Horbling. However, I can't find a birth registration for Alice in the period 1875-1877 on the GRO Index which you really need to confirm her mother's maiden name.

Assuming that these are the correct parents of Alice, here are the earlier census records:

1841 census of Anwick, Lincs
HO107/614/6, folio 7, page 7

Wm BRACKENBURY 35 Publican Born in county yes
Sarah do 32 yes
Hubert do 9 yes
Elizth do 7 yes
Angelina do 4 yes
Mary do 2 yes
Robt SMITH 67 Labourer yes

In the 1851 census, Hubert in in Helpringham (HO107/2101, folio 297, page 33) as an Apprentice in the househole of Samuel FAULKNER a Miller & Baker.

This looks as if it could be Sarah BRACKENBURY (transcribed as BRACKERBURY) in the 1851 census of Nuthall, Notts (HO107/2127, folio 463, page 14) where she is shown as a married Schoolmistress, aged 42, born Little Hale, Lincs living with daughters Mary Ann and Jane both born Anwick plus 3 visitors but no sign of William.

I can't find Dorothy Sophia in the 1851 but in the 1861 census of Oakham (RG9/2307, folio 19, page 32) she is shown as a Pupil Scholar at Mill Street and in the 1871 census of Horbling (RG10/3313, folio 37, page 12) she has become Sophia SHORT an unmarried Farmer's Housekeeper.

Hope this helps.

Janet

[Kavik]

Hello Janet!

Thanks so much for this information!!!

Did you obtain this from an online source? I am particularly interested in a birth record for Alice May Firman (born in December of 1904, I believe) - daughter of Alice Brackenbury and ? (most likely not Alice's husband at the time - James W. Firman)!

The Brackenbury info from the 1851 census I had, but nice to see it confirmed!

Any additional info/help you can provide would be most helpful!

Thanks again!
Kavik
Manchester, NH - USA

[Pam Downes]

Hi Kavik,
Did Alice Brackenbury and James Firman marry in England/Wales, or abroad, in June 1903? Only I can't find them in the GRO Index for that quarter. (If they married in Scotland you have to look at different records, and I'm not sure how much you can look at for free.)
And although I know that FreeBMD is not yet complete, they do claim that they have 100% transcription for births and marriages in 1903, 1904, and 1905.
Furthermore, if Alice and James were still in England in 1904, I can find no trace of an Alice May Firman birth registration in 1903-1905 on FreeBMD, but checking the same time span, there is an Alice May Brackenbury's birth registered in December quarter 1904.
You will need to check the full GRO Index (available for free via Ancestry, check 'complete range and index') to make sure that FreeBMD haven't missed the marriage or birth registrations.
Re the birth registration of Alice born 1875, it's interesting that there is a Lucy Brackenbury registered in December quarter in Bourn registration district (of which Horbling is a part), but there is no relevant Lucy shown in the 1881 census. You'd need to check the full GRO Index to see if there is a death registration (nothing so far on FreeBMD), but your best bet would be to nip off to the LDS FHC in either Concord or Nashua and order in the film of Horbling baptism PR to check for a baptism of either Alice or Lucy.
Pam

[Kavik]

Hi Pam,

Thanks very much for the additional info!!

Alice Brackenbury and James William Firman were married in England (presumably in the Horbling area) in June of 1903. They had four children; Alice May (born 1904 DEC), Henry James (b. 1908), Charles Edward (b. 1911) and Edward Horace (b. 1913). All but Alice May were born in the US.

According to family oral tradition, Alice May who was born in England (presumably in Horbling) in December of 1904 (accoring to her death record here in the US - she died 5.JUL.1950 and given her age inthe death records (by years, months and days), when you "do the math", it works out to a DEC 1904 birthdate, though some records indicate she was born "around 1905".

She was the daughter of Alice Brackenbury, and even though Alice was married to James William Firman, it has always been the belief that she was not his daughter but rather a child of Alice and possibly one of the lodgers at the Plough Inn. I was hoping to find a copy of her birth certificate to see who was listed as the father.

It appears from your data that she was given her mother's maiden name! Any possibility of obtaining a copy (not really a copy, even just a transcription will do) of her birth record??!!

Not sure who Lucy Brackenbury is (from your data, born in the last quarter of 1875 - is that correct??). I'll ned to check into that further - possibly a sister who died as a young child.

Again, thanks for the info above and any and all additional information you can assist with!!!

Kavik
Manchester, NH - USA

[janbooth]

Hello again Karvik,

All my sources were online via Ancestry UK. Further to Pam's reply, there is no death registration for a Lucy BRACKENBURY on the GRO Index between Dec 1875 and Dec 1881, so no joy there. I have found a marriage registration in the March qtr 1904 at Lincoln registration district, vol 7a, page 713 for an Alice BRACKENBURY but to a John William STOKES. There is no marriage registration for a James William FIRMAN on the GRO Index between 1903 and 1908 other than one in the Nottingham registration district in Mar qtr 1903, vol 7b, page 450 but according to Free BMD this is to either an Alice Elizabeth POLE or a Gertrude Sarah WOODHOUSE. There are 2 marriages of a James FIRMAN, one in West Derby in March 1906 and one in Pancras in September 1906, but according to FreeBMD none of the names on the register is that of an Alice BRACKENBURY. How did you discover that Alice and James William had married in 1903? Could it be that they never married in the UK and that is why Alice May is registered under the surname of BRACKENBURY. I think your friend will either have to buy the birth certificate of Alice May and/or do as Pam suggests and order the parish records of Horbling via her local Family History Centre to try to clarify the situation. Good luck,

Janet

[Kavik]

Hi Janet,

Thanks for the additional info!

Interesting for Lucy - I would have thought perhaps a child that died young.

Regarding Alice Brackenbury, that is quite interesting indeed!! Same with James W. Firman!!

James and Alice came to America in 1907 as a married couple. There was one child with them; Alice May who was born 29.OCT.1904 (date arrived at in "doing the math" from the info at the cemetery as far as her age was concerned at her date of death). I saw the index of the marriage registration for James W. Firman in 1903 and assumed it was to Alice Brackenbury - guess I need to research that a bit more.

It is known that Alice May was not the daughter of James W. Firman (hence most likely the surname Brackenbury), but that's about it. She did arive in America with her parents (Alice and James) under the name Firman.

Again, thanks for the info - I'll have to do some additional checking on the marriage!

Kavik
Manchester, NH - USA

[Pam Downes]

Interesting for Lucy - I would have thought perhaps a child that died young. Hi Karvik,
My theory was that Alice was registered as Lucy, but perhaps baptised and always known as Alice. Hence the need to view the baptism PRs.


James and Alice came to America in 1907 as a married couple. There was one child with them; Alice May Does this mean you have their immigration record, or is this date just verbal family history? If you have their records, do the ages tie in with ages on the census etc?

Alice May who was born 29.OCT.1904 (date arrived at in "doing the math" from the info at the cemetery as far as her age was concerned at her date of death). Ages at date of death are possibly the most unreliable information of all because the person most likely to know the truth is dead! If great-aunt Hepzibah always said that she was born in 1900 no-one is going to doubt her, so when the death is registered the informant blithely answers '1900' when asked for year of birth (or gives an age equating to that year), not knowing that great auntie was actually born in 1895.
Pam

[Kavik]

Hi Pam,

Interesting theory on Alice! The only name we have is Alice Brackenbury, perhaps Lucy was her middle name (or Alice her middle name and she just always went by that instead of Lucy). I'll have to check with my friend to see if she was known by any other name of if her middle name was known.

Yes, I do have an immigration record (copy of the ships manifest) as well as a 1910 Pensylvania census (they settles first in Philadelphia). The dates tie in with all the census data from England regarding ages, etc.

Her birthdate was always well known and documented in several different places, so I've no doubt there.

Any idea where I would look for a marriage certificate for this couple and a birth certificate for their daughter, Alice May? I was hopinhg churtch records rather than civil records (for cost reasons), but whatever works.

Thanks!!

Kavik

[Pam Downes]

Alice Brackenbury and James William Firman were married in England (presumably in the Horbling area) in June of 1903. Quite possibly *not* in the Horbling area. :)
1891 census Hubert, May (sic), Hubert, Florence and Albert were in Nottingham. Alice was in Ilkeston (Derbyshire) with Hubert senior's sister, Eliza (married to Edward Potter), and granny Sarah Brackenbury.
Hubert senior's death registered June quarter 1899 Leicester registration district.
1901 census, Mary, Alice, Hubert, Florence and Hubert are in Leicester.
Incidentally, while your friend is browsing the Horbling PRs for Alice, check for a baptism for Mary/May. There's a birth registration for a Mary May Brackenbury in 1874. Note also that she is listed as May in the 1881 census.


According to family oral tradition, Alice May who was born in England (presumably in Horbling) in December of 1904
She was the daughter of Alice Brackenbury, and even though Alice was married to James William Firman, it has always been the belief that she was not his daughter but rather a child of Alice and possibly one of the lodgers at the Plough Inn. I was hoping to find a copy of her birth certificate to see who was listed as the father.
It appears from your data that she was given her mother's maiden name! Any possibility of obtaining a copy (not really a copy, even just a transcription will do) of her birth record??!! For the same reasons as an unlikely marriage in the Horbling area, I would also doubt that Alice May was born in the Horbling area.
The only way you can obtain birth registration details is by sending for a copy of the birth certificate.
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
Pam

[Pam Downes]

William BRACKENBURY married Sarah FAULKNER 28th April 1829 at Great Hale.
Details from Lafford deanery marriage index 1700-1837 published by Lincolnshire FHS.
Pam

[Kavik]

Hi Pam,

Thanks for the insight! May Brackenbury was born 1874 to Hubert and Dorothea Sophia. She was the second of six (known) children.

I see what you mean about Alice Brackenbury not being born in the Horbling area!

It appears as if Alice May was born at St. George, Hanover Sq., London - about a half mile or so from where Hubert and Sophia were apparently married (Marylebone, so the family seems to have moved around a bit.

Thanks also for the details of the marriage of William and Sarah! Nice to have her maiden name!

I'll have to "bite the bullet" and send away for a copy of her birth cert.

Kavik

[rscottg]

My g-grandfather was Richard Brackenbury of Horbling. Son of Hubert and Dorothea.

Richard and his brother Hubert moved to Canada.

My mother has a drawing of the Plough Inn in Horbling. I’ll have to get it and make a scan of it. I used to be able to find a picture of the Inn on the net.

I know that I have distant relatives in New Hampshire. My mother and her mom (Richard’s daughter Constance) were there for a visit some 20 years ago or so.