PDA

View Full Version : Settlement Query



busyglen
25-10-2006, 12:22 PM
Yet again, I am trying to piece together the saga of my John JARVIS, with father John GREEN, and am failing dismally! :(

Could someone give me any idea on what `could' have happened in the following circumstances please. I know I have gone over this ground before, but I have done further research and am not sure if I am missing a clue somewhere.

John Jarvis was born 1823 Dunton, Buckinghamshire, to mother (unknown but possibly ? JARVIS) and father named as John GREEN on John Jarvis' marriage cert. John gave Dunton as his place of birth on 1851 Census, and I have searched the parish records for Dunton without finding a baptism.

Believing that John was illegitimate, I searched an on-line part of the Winslow Workhouse, and found a record of John Jarvis aged 11 in Aug. 1835 showing his place of abode as Dunton, `illegitimate - no allowance'. So that clarified the situation. I then found an entry for a John GREEN aged 33 in Oct. 1845
abode: Winslow. `Fever - 4s.6d & bread'. So this could have been his father, but John Jarvis was married by this time.

My query is this: I assume that John's mother was a JARVIS, and that he was named after her. If this is the case, could she have come from another village and had her baby, in Dunton, if the boys father was resident in Dunton.
Or would she have been sent back to wherever she had come from? I searched some fiche of Settlements etc. but nothing turned up.

I can find no trace of a likely Jarvis being born in Dunton at all and as it is a small village would have thought that there would have been something in the Parish records. There are some Greens but the time span is out. I am beginning to think that John's mother came from outside Dunton, and possibly went to Dunton for John to be born, especially if that is where his father came from. OR...John's mother died and he was bought up by his father. But then....if she had died soon after birth, surely John would have been brought up as a GREEN? I don't know where else to go for clues. John joined the army just before he married in 1842 in Buckingham, and is not in the 1841 Dunton Census. There is no sign of a GREEN either. |help|

Glenys

Mutley
25-10-2006, 2:04 PM
Glenys
You are much more experienced at this than I am but after looking at the 1851 census I have two thoughts to throw in the pot.
1. He was a Police Constable. He must have filled in forms to join the police force, maybe included his mother's name. Are there any records kept?
2. There was a sister in law age 12 years, Maria Cuff. Is this his wife's sister? That means her maiden name may have been Emma Cuff. Where was she in 1841? John may have been nearby as they married in 1842.

I should imagine you have already found the John Green Junr age 19 and living in 1841 at Winslow with parents John and Justina, siblings Charlotte, Mary, and Thomas Green.
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Civil Parish: Mursley; County: Buckinghamshire; Enumeration District: 21; Page: 9; Line: 11; GSU roll: 241215.

Regards, Mutley

busyglen
25-10-2006, 5:37 PM
Hi Mutley,

I'm not that experienced, I still make lots of bloomers, and keep going around in circles! After this last post, I shall `shut up' with this line, as I have just seen how many times I have mentioned them! I am just so frustrated, as I know lots of other people are with their lines, and I keep trying to look for other avenues. :o

To answer your questions.
1. John joined the Police Force when he moved to London some time after 1846. I did find some records on-line and searched, but they seemed to start at (from memory) 1850ish, and although there were a couple of Jarvis there, they had no names or details against them. Further down they much more detail. I do have a link for the NA lists, but unfortunately I can't get to London to view them. I did get some fiche from Bucks. FHS for Met.Police strays from Bucks. but he wasn't amongst them :confused:

2. John's wife Emma was Emma Robbins, born in Buckingham, where John & Emma married. Her parents were Thomas & Mary Robbins. Unfortunately they were born out of county on the 1841 so who knows where they come from!

I haven't seen the entry for John Green Junior at Winslow. The age is a bit out, and also, why would he be shown as Green, when for most of his life he was called Jarvis? Thanks for that though, I will look into it.

Up until today, I haven't had access to the 1841, but hopefully I shall now be able to do a bit more digging. Thanks for the help. :)

Glenys

Mutley
25-10-2006, 5:54 PM
You got me at it now..... So who was Maria Cuff if Emma was a Robbins. :confused:

On the 1841 John Green's age may be only a month or so out depending on the registration date. Also I have a John who suddenly changed his name (just before he married) to his mother's maiden name. Maybe mine did not like his dad!!!

Good Luck

busyglen
26-10-2006, 8:29 AM
Er....? Are we looking at the same thread Mutley? Or...have you got that name from a previous thread about my Jones family?

I have a Maria in my Jones line that I have been following, who was the sister of my Elizabeth Jones, who married Alfred Strong Jarvis, son of John Jarvis and Emma Robbins.

Or, have you stumbled on something that was in front of me and I've missed!

Glenys

Pam Downes
26-10-2006, 9:31 AM
Or, have you stumbled on something that was in front of me and I've missed! Hi Glenys and Mutley,
As Mutley's currently off-line, but Glenys isn't, I'll just shove my nose in. :)
Mutley's referring to the 1851 census entry she found for a John JARVIS, HO107/1477 folio 312 page 28
13 New Grosvenor Place, parish of St George Hanover Square
John JARVIS, head, mar, 28, police constable, Buckinhamshire Dunton
Emma Sophia JARVIS, wife, mar, 27, Buckingham
What looks like Enema :D, but I think might be a very badly written Emma, JARVIS, daur, 1, Middlesex Pimlico
Maria CUFF, sister-in-law, 12, Surry (sic) Lambeth
Alfred JARVIS, son, 5, Buckingham

I had a look at this entry yesterday, but as the only 2-year-old +/- 2 Maria Cuff I could find in the 1841 census was born in Dorset I couldn't find a link. Just found I did a whoopsie yesterday - didn't put in the variant years for Maria, so now have a Maria, 4 months old in 1841 living and born in Surrey.
New Street, Southwark,
parish of St George the Martyr
HO107/1084/1 folio 20 page 32
Possible parents
Thomas CUFF, 30, cordwainer, born Ireland
Ann, 30, lacemaker, not born in county

So the question is, Glenys, was your John a GREEN or a JARVIS on the 1851, or are we dealing with a situation like Erica's Thomas Robinson where we have two people, same name, same occupation, other family details the same, completely confusing everyone?

Pam


(a very slow typist who now expects Glenys to be off-line too!)
(told you so - grey button beside Glenys' name :D )

Mutley
26-10-2006, 9:39 AM
Hello Pam |wave| Thank you.
You said it all much better than I could have done. That 1851 sure looks like it should be Glenys's John?

Mutley

Pam Downes
26-10-2006, 10:30 AM
That 1851 sure looks like it should be Glenys's John? Hi Mutley,
I think so, because I can't find a John Green born Dunton on the 1851 via my multi-census access company (though their indexing is sometimes incorrect :) .
But after reading about Erica's Thomas Robinson I'm willing to believe anything.
http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17253
Two men, same name, same age, same occupation, wife's name and occupation the same, some children same name and born same place...... :eek: :eek:
I've still got to follow the families through on the census because I'm finding it difficult to get my head round them.
Pam

Mutley
26-10-2006, 11:22 AM
Hurry back Glenys,
We are waiting with baited breath......

Mutley and for and on behalf of Pam ;)

busyglen
26-10-2006, 11:25 AM
Aha!! Now I can see where you are coming from! I must admit that I had completely forgotten this entry for Maria Cuff on that piece of census. I can't remember off hand whether it was Myth or someone else who found this entry, when I was looking for John in London, and I vaguely remembered the name of Maria Cuff, but couldn't think why. Bad move, but I was so excited at finding John and Emma at last with son Alfred, and a daughter who I didn't know they had, that I completely ignored Maria. :o

I `think' that this is possibly a relation of Emma's as her parents were born out of county (ie. not in Bucks.) It could be Emma's mum's side, so worth me following that up. So...Mutley, thank you so much for including that, it's a great piece of information that I had overlooked. :)

Thanks Pam for giving me the complete details again, as although I am sure I have this in my file, I had forgotten it.

No...I don't think that John was ever called Green. Everything I have found for him always states JARVIS, the only mention of GREEN, is on his marriage certificate. So....he was born in Dunton, grew up in Dunton, and was illegitimate, as the Winslow entry I found confirms. If I could find John Green around Winslow, then that would help a bit. I now have access to the 1841 so I am working my way through the villages etc. in and around Winslow.

I don't think the John Green that was found with his family are the same one, and John, (I don't think) would have been called Green. He was in the army at this time I believe also. Will still keep looking.

It's just a shame that I can't find out who his mother was.

Thanks for all this input...it is a great help, even if I have made such a mess of it!! ;)

Glenys

(The mention of Green on the marriage cert. was the fact that his father was John GREEN, but John Jarvis gave the name of Jarvis as his name)

Mutley
26-10-2006, 11:40 AM
(The mention of Green on the marriage cert. was the fact that his father was John GREEN, but John Jarvis gave the name of Jarvis as his name)

Ahh but! John Jarvis may have called himself Jarvis but what did John Green call him on the census?
Who filled in what forms? |banghead|

busyglen
26-10-2006, 11:45 AM
But......why if John Jarvis was stated as illegitimate, and went to Winslow Union for money when he was 11 yrs old, would he not have said his name was Green if he was living with his father?? I suspect that his mother was in the Workhouse, and possibly died. Surely he would have called himself Green if he had been living with his father and his wife?

Glenys

busyglen
26-10-2006, 11:48 AM
The reason he went to the Workhouse for money, is the reason I've asked whether his mother would have lived out of the Parish, and snuck in to have him, or would she have been resident. I have looked at the Settlement etc. papers and couldnt find a Jarvis or Green that applied.

Glenys

busyglen
26-10-2006, 11:51 AM
Just had another thought! If John had been born in the Workhouse (was it open in 1823, will have to check) would there have been a list of births in the records at Winslow? Anyone know?

Glenys

busyglen
26-10-2006, 12:45 PM
Have found Maria Cuff in BMD, Mar.Qtr. 1841 St. Giles ?Southwark? vol: 1v page 412.
Could someone possibly check these details out for me, to see if you agree. The reg.district and volume not clear.

I shall get this cert. as it will help to find from which side of the family she comes from. It looks as if it could be her mother's side as the father is Irish according to the piece you found Pam.

Glenys

Mythology
26-10-2006, 12:58 PM
It's "St Geo Southwk" - i.e. St George, Southwark (not St Giles).
1v 412 - sort of. It's "IV" not 1v - i.e. 4 if you're using normal numbers.

Southwark is not Lambeth, and she wouldn't be 12 in 1851, so I wouldn't like to say that it's the same girl, but one never knows.
I suspect that the birth cert will probably show that her mother is Ann Moore - that seems to be the match going by FreeBMD.

Pam Downes
26-10-2006, 1:00 PM
I shall get this cert. as it will help to find from which side of the family she comes from. Ah, so that's how you solve a problem like Maria. :D :D
(Sorry, Glenys. Just couldn't resist!)
I would have said ref is IV 412 as in 4 412. 4 is definitely correct for St George Southwark anyway.
http://www.fhsc.org.uk/genuki/REG/districts/st%20george%20southwark.html
Pam

busyglen
26-10-2006, 1:04 PM
Thanks Myth. I meant IV sorry, I was typing quickly as I had to get lunch!

No, I realise that Southwark isn't Lambeth, so I was a bit confused. That's the only Maria Cuff I could find between 1838-1841. I realised it was a bit out, but thought that the Census entry might me a mistake. Still, failing all else, I might get it just to see what is what.

I `feel' that it's on Emma's side, not John's. John was born Bucks. whereas Emma's parents were born out of county. I also found an Emma Sophia Robbins in FreeBMD in London a while back, which makes me think they originally came from London, and Emma was named after one of them.

Glenys

busyglen
26-10-2006, 1:06 PM
Ah, so that's how you solve a problem like Maria. :D :D
(Sorry, Glenys. Just couldn't resist!)
I would have said ref is IV 412 as in 4 412. 4 is definitely correct for St George Southwark anyway.
http://www.fhsc.org.uk/genuki/REG/districts/st%20george%20southwark.html
Pam

Thanks Pam! I seem to be beset by Maria's one way and another don't I? :D

Glenys

Pam Downes
26-10-2006, 1:11 PM
Southwark is not Lambeth, and she wouldn't be 12 in 1851, so I wouldn't like to say that it's the same girl, but one never knows.
I suspect that the birth cert will probably show that her mother is Ann Moore - that seems to be the match going by FreeBMD.Hi Glenys,
Myth doesn't have supersonic ESP re the birth cert. He means there's a marriage in June quarter 1839 with Thomas Cuff and Ann Moore on the same page.
On the other hand, Ann Moore could have been Ann Robbins (i.e. sister to Emma), was widowed and then remarried.
Would you like us to stop now before we confuse you even more? :)
Pam

Peter Goodey
26-10-2006, 1:13 PM
If John had been born in the Workhouse (was it open in 1823, will have to check) would there have been a list of births in the records at Winslow?
Glenys

Assuming he was born in Dunton, in 1823 we would be talking about Dunton workhouse. The records, if any have survived would be filed with the parish records. But in 1835, if that was the other date you mentioned, responsibility would have been handed to the Union ie Winslow. No doubt the records would be in the same record office but catalogued separately.

busyglen
26-10-2006, 1:16 PM
Thank you for that Peter, that makes sense. The 1835 details were from Winslow, so obviously I would be looking at Dunton for the birth. I'll try again to see what is available from Bucks. :)

Glenys

Pam Downes
26-10-2006, 1:29 PM
I also found an Emma Sophia Robbins in FreeBMD in London a while back, which makes me think they originally came from London, and Emma was named after one of them.Glenys,
Depending on whether that was a BM or D, try to find Emma on the census with her parents to see if there's any clues there.
Pam

busyglen
26-10-2006, 1:49 PM
Glenys,
Depending on whether that was a BM or D, try to find Emma on the census with her parents to see if there's any clues there.
Pam

The only place I have found Emma with her parents is on the 1841 Census.
She was in Bourton Rd. Buckingham with parents Thomas & Mary Robbins.
I think Thomas died between 1841 and 1851 as he wasn't to be found on the 1851. I have the CD's but couldn't find him. Only Mary as a Widow. Of course by this time Emma was married and living in London with John and their two children.

As her parents were born `out of county' that could be anywhere. I believe she had a brother Henry, and I have found one that could be him on the 1841 so will try and see what turns up from there. It's a shame that their births are pre 1837 so no nee names.

Glenys

busyglen
26-10-2006, 2:02 PM
Hi Glenys,
Myth doesn't have supersonic ESP re the birth cert. He means there's a marriage in June quarter 1839 with Thomas Cuff and Ann Moore on the same page.
On the other hand, Ann Moore could have been Ann Robbins (i.e. sister to Emma), was widowed and then remarried.
Would you like us to stop now before we confuse you even more? :)
Pam

Sorry Pam, missed this post...it's getting a bit jumbled isn't it? I'll have to print the lot off and inwardly digest.

Emma had (according to a list of baptisms that was compiled by another family member years ago) the following siblings, as yet unchecked:
Henry, Harriet Ann, Robert, William Robert.

So...don't think Ann Moore could have been Ann Robbins.

I don't mind any ideas....after all Mutley spotting the Maria Cuff, has given me another trail to follow which I had completely missed. I am easily diverted, and forget to go back to that record, whilst on my trawl to find John & Emma in 1851. The piece is missing on the 1861, and I have lost Emma from then on. I have son Alfred through his marriage and down the line to my father which is something. It's just this darned Jarvis/Green saga that is doing my head in! |banghead|

Thanks anyway for all the help. :)

Glenys

Pam Downes
26-10-2006, 2:18 PM
Glenys,
Either one of us is getting confused, or else we're confusing the other. :) To quote Maria again - let's start at the very beginning.....
1851 census:
We have John Jarvis who married to Emma Sophia Robbins in Buckingham registration district in 1842.
Then you said in message 18 re the Maria Cuff connection
"I `feel' that it's on Emma's side, not John's. John was born Bucks. whereas Emma's parents were born out of county. I also found an Emma Sophia Robbins in FreeBMD in London a while back, which makes me think they originally came from London, and Emma was named after one of them."
Now which Emma do you mean was named after whom? Do you mean John's wife Emma was named after this other Emma Sophia Robbins? Or do you mean this other Emma Sophia was named after John's wife? I thought you might have meant the latter, hence my suggestion in message 23 about looking for this Emma in the census. (Possibility of her brother marrying and calling his daughter after his favourite sister?)
Pam

Pam Downes
26-10-2006, 2:26 PM
Yep, it's a jumble. Especially when one of us is a slow typist and cross-posts. :)
I don't suppose that other family member bothered to record the place of the baptisms by any chance did they? Or the dates?
I think I would forget the Maria Cuff connection for the time being and try to find Emma's alleged siblings through the census.
Just don't rule out the possibility of Harriet Ann calling herself plain Ann.
Pam

busyglen
26-10-2006, 2:28 PM
|banghead| I'm confusing myself now!!

Whilst looking for John's wife Emma a long while ago, I searched FreeBMD and came across an Emma Sophia Robbins, in London, and who was older than my Emma. I thought at the time, that it may be possible that `my' Emma was named after her, although I didn't have a link to London. That made me wonder if the family originated in London, not Bucks. Now that I have the 1841 Census information showing `my' Emma's parents, they are both shown as being born `not in county'. Hence my wondering if Maria Cuff is somehow linked to Emma's mother's side of the family, as I don't know what her nee name was. It's possible that Emma's dad met Mary in London, and then they moved to Bucks. for some reason, where they had their family.

Does that make more sense? Sorry if I am confusing you. `I' know what I mean, but I'm not terribly good at putting it across. :(

Glenys

busyglen
26-10-2006, 2:32 PM
Back to the drawing board!!

I've just found a printout of the 1851 Census that I had which shows Mary Robbins aged 65 Widow in Bourton Rd.Bucks. being born in Brackley NTH. I think this is Emma's mother, so that knocks the London theory! Sigh. Still, I am eliminating facts, which is good.

Glenys

Pam Downes
26-10-2006, 2:33 PM
Coincidence? 1851 census
H0107/1495 folio 667 p67
William Robbins, 24, born Buckinghamshire (Histon???)
POLICE CONSTABLE (capitals for excitement!!!)

Drat. Can't find him on 1861 or 1871, but there are a couple of WilliamRobbins dying in St Pancras/Pancras in 1855 and 1859. So annoying that there are no ages given!!
Pam

busyglen
26-10-2006, 2:44 PM
Ooh er missus!! Picks myself up off the floor after falling off in excitement! |woohoo|

You won't believe this but I have just been looking at William and working his age out for the 1851. So....that's obviously how John got the idea to go into the police force after leaving the army!!! WELL DONE !!

Yet another clue to follow. |jumphappy Thanks so much for sticking with this, it's been a tremendous help and I have so many things to look at now!
I shan't be able to sleep tonight I am sure! .....better go into the spare room.

Thanks!

Glenys

Pam Downes
26-10-2006, 2:47 PM
Not another cross-post !:eek:
I've just posted a sort-of p.s. to my message about William re him on later census.
Pam

Pam Downes
26-10-2006, 2:49 PM
Another thought - re those Metropolitan police records which I think you said you had - look for William Robbins.
Pam

busyglen
26-10-2006, 2:53 PM
That's a good idea, unfortunately I shall have to go to the Library to check them as they are on fiche, and my reader got broken. I can't wait now!! I'll try and go Saturday if I have the chance. I'm just off to make myself a cuppa before sorting out dinner, then I'll have another bash at this lot.

Thanks again. :)

Glenys

Mutley
26-10-2006, 2:59 PM
Goodness me! I went to lunch, came back, and you've wrote a book |book|



Emma had (according to a list of baptisms that was compiled by another family member years ago) the following siblings, as yet unchecked:
Henry, Harriet Ann, Robert, William Robert.

In 1841 there is a family of Robbins (Cheep Cheep!) living in St Marylebone, Middx.
Amongst the siblings are Emma, Harriet, Henry and William
Class: HO107; Civil Parish: St Marylebone; County: Middlesex; Enumeration District: 9; Page: 47


Would you like us to stop now before we confuse you even more?


Mutley :confused: :confused: :confused:

busyglen
26-10-2006, 3:06 PM
Wow, that sounds good....are you able to get any other info of this piece Mutley, like ages and whether they were born in county? I don't have Ancestry and have run out of credits on 1837online, so can't look at these details. I only have the 1841/1851 Bucks. and 1871 Chelsea at the moment.

Glenys

Mutley
26-10-2006, 3:14 PM
Have just emailed it to you. There are quite a few of them and a couple on the previous page.
Good Luck
Mutley

busyglen
26-10-2006, 3:15 PM
Have just emailed it to you. There are quite a few of them and a couple on the previous page.
Good Luck
Mutley

Many thanks for that (have got) really appreciate it. :)

Glenys

busyglen
26-10-2006, 3:18 PM
Another thought - re those Metropolitan police records which I think you said you had - look for William Robbins.
Pam

Thanks Pam....as you say..great minds think alike! ;)

Glenys

busyglen
26-10-2006, 3:29 PM
Yep, it's a jumble. Especially when one of us is a slow typist and cross-posts. :)
I don't suppose that other family member bothered to record the place of the baptisms by any chance did they? Or the dates?
I think I would forget the Maria Cuff connection for the time being and try to find Emma's alleged siblings through the census.
Just don't rule out the possibility of Harriet Ann calling herself plain Ann.
Pam

Sorry, this really is a jumble....I have only just read this, I should try and keep these in line, but it's so difficult.

Yes, the person who extracted the details of the baptisms, put the names, parents and the dates, and all were in Buckingham Church records.

All parents shown as Thomas/Mary Robbins.
Henry, 10/1/1814
Harriet Ann, 1/5/1816
Robert, 8/1/1821
Eliza (actually Emma) 2/2/1823 (I have a copy of the record)
William Robert 30/8/1826

There is possibly a Sarah Ann, in 1840 but I think this is an error as the father is shown as a Shoemaker, whereas he was a Glazier.

Glenys

busyglen
26-10-2006, 5:24 PM
Thought I would look for Thomas Robbins death, as it would be between 1841/1851. Couldn't find anything that looked in the right area, but.....found a Thomas Robbins in the Sept. Qtr. St. Geo. Southk 1851. :confused:

Strange that we've come back to this same area, but it can't be him as wife Mary in Bucks. 1851 said she was a widow, and this is after the Census.

Oh well, keep truckin. |wave|

Glenys

Pam Downes
26-10-2006, 6:50 PM
Thought I would look for Thomas Robbins death, as it would be between 1841/1851. Moi aussi.
I looked on
http://www.familyhistoryonline.net
Unfortunately Bucks FHS don't seem to have burials after 1851, so no chance of finding Mary, but they do have Buckingham itself to 1849. Very strange as no Thomas Robbins/Robins, though he could possibly have been very inconsiderate and have pegged out 1st January 1850.
Don't think the Thomas death in Southwark 1851 is yours. The 1851 census has two Thomas' living at 11 Kent Road, parish of St George the Martyr. Dad aged 33, a furnishing undertaker, and son aged 12. Can't find either of them on the 1861 at a quick glance, so impossible to tell which it might have been.
Pam

Pam Downes
26-10-2006, 6:54 PM
p.s. Don't forget that not all deaths prior to 1875 were registered. And FreeBMD is not yet complete.
Pam

busyglen
27-10-2006, 10:17 AM
p.s. Don't forget that not all deaths prior to 1875 were registered. And FreeBMD is not yet complete.
Pam

Thanks Pam. I usually look at the Free BMD on Ancestry as I find it easier to search. Wasn't aware that I could do this until fairly recently, and used to save up names and have a fiver on 1837online now and again.

Regarding William Robbins the `Policeman'. I nipped into town earlier and had a quick look at the fiche again for Bucks. Strays Policemen, and found the William Robbins (shown Robins) b. 3.4.1827 (year after our William christened)
and parents shown as James & Mary Robins. Wife Eliza Mary. So not the same William unfortunately. He was shown as born Colnbrook Bucks., but I thought that was in Berks.? Wonder if he is a cousin of Emma's?

I went through the other Parish Papers fiche again for Settlements, Removals, and B' Bonds, plus other Parish Papers, and found a John Jarvis, 1702, Loughton, Buckingham. I know it's nothing to do with my John, but set me wondering if this family was something to do with his mother? There weren't any details so I would have to send for the record, but it's a bit far fetched I think to take a chance.

Back to the drawing board!

Glenys

Peter Goodey
27-10-2006, 10:38 AM
Colnbrook was in Bucks, now in Berks.

busyglen
27-10-2006, 10:59 AM
Thank you Peter, I have been trying to look this up, as I thought this might be the case. I noticed it was fairly close on the border. :)

Glenys

Pam Downes
27-10-2006, 7:49 PM
Regarding William Robbins the `Policeman'. I nipped into town earlier and had a quick look at the fiche again for Bucks. Strays Policemen, and found the William Robbins (shown Robins) b. 3.4.1827 (year after our William christened) and parents shown as James & Mary Robins. Wife Eliza Mary. So not the same William unfortunately. oh b.u.m.s.That'll teach us to make assumptions!
Pam

busyglen
28-10-2006, 10:35 AM
Always worth the effort though Pam! ;)

Glenys