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AnnP
22-09-2006, 7:58 PM
Hi
I have hit that brick wall. One line of my family were boat people their name is Williams I have found them in the 1871 census ref : RG10/4070 but no trace of them before that census. Is it possible that they were not included in 1861. William Williams born 1814 in Hescoyd, Shropshire his wife Elizabeth born 1817 in Whitchurch, Shropshire. Is there any other means of researching boat people.
regards
Ann

Geoffers
23-09-2006, 4:40 PM
People who moved a lot are always going to be harder to trace than those who remained largely static. Some record offices have special collections to deal with specific topics of local interest - possibly worth phoning one or two to see if they have anything of use.

I have a recollection that there is/was a waterways index being collated by someone whose name I think is John Roberts. It may be worth trying to contact him?

Other places such as the National Waterways Museum at Gloucester, or the Canal Museum at Stoke Bruerne may have specialist puiblications to help, or know of people to contact.

Maybe try the Waterways Archives as well....

Geoffers

jeeb
23-09-2006, 11:46 PM
Hi Ann,
I have found this family on 1841 & 1851 but there are a few problems. It seems that William had 2 or 3 wives called Elizabeth. Be prepared, ages on censuses are often many years out.

1851 census
HO107/2036 Folio 796 Page 34
Kingswinford, Village of Commonside
Canal Boat belonging to Price & Son
William Williams Head 38 Boatman born Escoid Salop
Elizabeth wife 23 born Whitchurch
John son 15 born Whitchurch
William son 13 born Whitchurch
James son 9 born Whitchurch
Walter son 7 born Whitchurch
Mary dau 2 born Whitchurch

1841 census
HO107/903/12 Folio 30 Page 13
Whitchurch Shrops.
William Williams Head 28 Lab. No
Elizabeth 20 Yes
John 6 Yes
William 3 Yes
Ambrose 8 mth No

(Yes or No means born in county)
Ambrose appears to be reg dead in 1845.


Cheers
Jeremy.

AnnP
25-09-2006, 9:47 AM
People who moved a lot are always going to be harder to trace than those who remained largely static. Some record offices have special collections to deal with specific topics of local interest - possibly worth phoning one or two to see if they have anything of use.

I have a recollection that there is/was a waterways index being collated by someone whose name I think is John Roberts. It may be worth trying to contact him?

Other places such as the National Waterways Museum at Gloucester, or the Canal Museum at Stoke Bruerne may have specialist puiblications to help, or know of people to contact.

Geoffers
Hi Geoffers

Many thanks for your quick reply. I will try the options you mentioned and let you know how I get on. Thanks again.

AnnP

AnnP
25-09-2006, 10:06 AM
Hi Ann,
I have found this family on 1841 & 1851 but there are a few problems. It seems that William had 2 or 3 wives called Elizabeth. Be prepared, ages on censuses are often many years out.

1851 census
HO107/2036 Folio 796 Page 34
Kingswinford, Village of Commonside
Canal Boat belonging to Price & Son
William Williams Head 38 Boatman born Escoid Salop
Elizabeth wife 23 born Whitchurch
John son 15 born Whitchurch
William son 13 born Whitchurch
James son 9 born Whitchurch
Walter son 7 born Whitchurch
Mary dau 2 born Whitchurch

1841 census
HO107/903/12 Folio 30 Page 13
Whitchurch Shrops.
William Williams Head 28 Lab. No
Elizabeth 20 Yes
John 6 Yes
William 3 Yes
Ambrose 8 mth No

(Yes or No means born in county)
Ambrose appears to be reg dead in 1845.


Cheers
Jeremy.
Hi Jeremy

Many thanks for your quick reply. I did find the same census record in the 1851 census for the Williams family and I have been working on it - they have a son William dob 1838 then I look at 1871 census and they have another son William dob 1861, is it possible that would name two sons William? Another son Ambrose appears in 1871 census - is it possible that they named him after Ambrose reg. dead in 1845. I think I need to find the family in 1861 census to make the link.

Thanks for the lead in the 1841 census I will look that up.
Once again many thanks.

AnnP

jeeb
27-09-2006, 5:49 PM
Hi Ann,
The fact that a couple name two children the same name is very common, especially if it is the father's name. This nearly always, though there are exceptions, means that the first named child has died.
Here are a few suggestions you could follow up:-

William Williams married Elizabeth Bradshaw in Whitchurch 10th Sept 1834.

Ambrose Williams birth reg. Jul/Sep 1841 Ellesmere Vol 18 Page (35)3

Ambrose Williams birth reg Jul/Sep 1866 Dudley Vol 6c Page 133
Ambrose Williams birth reg Jan/Mar 1867 Dudley Vol 6c Page 32

There are too many William Williams to get an accurate picture so use the Ambrose connection. Get the birth cert. for Ambrose 1841, mother's maiden name should be Bradshaw.

Then firstly try Ambrose in Dudley 1867 (most likely, but you may need to look at both) and see if it is William's son and mother is Bradshaw. This will tell you if it is the same couple or if he has a second wife. If the mother's name is not Bradshaw you will need to locate a marriage to that name. I have other clues if you are interested.
Jeremy.

AnnP
27-09-2006, 8:20 PM
Hi Jeremy

Thank you so much for the info you sent. I do have a copy of Ambrose's birth certificate, 1867 - Dudley Volume 6c page 32 but it doesn't match. I am going to order the other one you suggested Volume 6c page 133.

I will also order the marriage certificate for William Williams and Elizabeth Bradshaw 10th Sept 1834.

I am very interested in any other clues you may have. As I said before I need to find where the family was in 1861 to make the link.

regards
Ann

jeeb
27-09-2006, 11:17 PM
Hi Ann,
You won't find a marriage certificate for William & Elizabeth Bradshaw (1834) I'm afraid as civil registration didn't start until July 1837. You should however find the birth registration for Ambrose in 1841 which will give mother's maiden name thus proving it either way. I don't think they are on 1861 census, I've done a fairly extensive search. Incidentally a branch of my family were boatmen in the same area, Whitchurch etc and some married Williams- you never know!
Good luck, Jeremy.

Geoffers
28-09-2006, 7:44 AM
I will also order the marriage certificate for William Williams and Elizabeth Bradshaw 10th Sept 1834.

You won't find a marriage certificate for William & Elizabeth Bradshaw (1834) I'm afraid as civil registration didn't start until July 1837
BUT - the local record office may be able to provide a photocopy of the marriage register entry, which may provide addiitonal help. If they cannot provide a photocopy you should still try to get to view the original parish register entry. Look especially at the names of witnesses, whether the marriage was recorded with consent of parents, whether it was by licence and if a different parish of reisdence is recorded for bride/groom.

Geoffers

jeeb
28-09-2006, 9:46 AM
Hi Ann.
Good advice from Geoffers. Can you possibly tell me who the parents of Ambrose Williams in Dudley 1867 are, even though they are not yours, it could well be a lead!
Jeremy

AnnP
28-09-2006, 1:18 PM
Hi Jeremy

I have ordered the birth certificate for Ambrose Williams 1866 - Dudley Volume 6c page 133 - quarter JAS despatch date 5th Oct 06. As soon as I receive it I will let you the names of the parents on it.

Ann

AnnP
28-09-2006, 1:33 PM
Hi Geoffers

I will try and get a photo copy of the marriage certificate for William Williams and Elizabeth Bradshaw (1834) from the local records office. Thanks for the advice.

Ann

AnnP
28-09-2006, 1:53 PM
Hi Jeremy

I think I misunderstood your last message. The details from the birth certificate that didn't match my Ambrose Williams (1867) Dudley volume 6c page 32 are as follows:

Dob - 7th December 1866 - registered 7th January 1867
Father's name - Charles Williams - occupation Colliery Lab
Mother's name - Mary Williams formerly Hartill - Church Lane, Tipton

regards
Ann

jeeb
28-09-2006, 5:27 PM
Hi Ann,
This is what I expected you to say. I believe Charles is related somehow, according to the 1871 census he was born in Whitchurch!
Jeremy.

AnnP
06-10-2006, 2:16 PM
Hi Jeremy

I have received the birth certficate for Ambrose dob 25.7.1861 born, Headside, Dudley - mother's name Mary Williams - informant Mary Williams, Brierley, Kingswinford. No mention of Father. Reading between the lines, could Mary be the daughter of William and Elizabeth her year of birth according to 1851 census is 1849 - that would make her aged about 17 when Ambrose was born. Perhaps Mary was unmarried and William and Elizabeth brought him up as theirs?

Also, the other birth certficate for Ambrose born 1841 was unsuccessful - it was my fault, I didn't make the referance clear enough. I've re-ordered it again quoting page 35/3.

I have been successful with the marriage certificate (copy from Whitchurch Register) for William Williams and Elizabeth Bradshaw - Married 10.9.1834 in presence of Ann Williams and C. Phillips in Whitchurch, Salop.

Any thoughts on the above.

regards
Ann

AnnP
06-10-2006, 2:25 PM
Hi Geoffers

Just thought I would let you know how I got on obtaining a copy of a marriage certificate for William Williams and Elizabeth Bradshaw 1834 from the Whitchurch Register - it was very straight forward. I made a phone call, gave them the marriage date and district and within a week it arrived. Only cost 3.20 for the copy and their administration.

Many thanks

Ann

AnnP
14-08-2009, 6:26 PM
I'm attaching this post here because it relates to the same family. Hope this is OK.

I ordered the death certificate for William Williams b1813 - Hiscoyd/Iscoyd, Shropshire, died 11 May 1893 aged 80 - Waterman, living at 1 Cholmondley Place, Runcorn. Informant, Mary PEERS, daughter, 14 White St, Runcorn.

I looked at 1891 census for 14 White Street and found a Mary PEERS RG12/2831 Folio 131 page 26 living with:
Thomas Cawley - boarder
John Lamb, son b1874 - Hyde, Cheshire
Annie Lamb, dau b1881 - Runcorn
William Lamb, son b1882 - Runcorn
Alice Lamb, dau b1883 - Runcorn
(All the children were transscribed with surname PEERS but when you look at original page it clearly states their surname is LAMB.

With the children being called LAMB I searched for a marriage for Mary Williams marrying a Mr Lamb and came up with:

Mary Williams - spinster aged 21 - Father William Williams a Waterman
William Lamb - bachelor aged 22 - occupation a Waterman - Father James Lamb a Waterman. (This seems to match because Mary comes from a long line of Boatmen)

I've been searching for a new marriage for Mary to a Mr PEERS/PEARS without any success.

I found Mary PEARS in 1901 census living in Salford RG13/3738 Folio 11 page 14 with:
Thomas Cawley - Boarder
Alice Lamb, dau
William Lamb, son
Annie Hughes (married daughter)

I just can't find a marriage between Mary (nee Williams) LAMB to a Mr PEERS/PEARS - Any help would be much appreciated.

PS - I found and ordered a marriage cert for a Mary Williams and a William Peers - 1891 Chester - ref ROC/27/184 but it wasn't a match.

Ann