POTTER family

[chopendoz]

Hi

I am new to the forum.

My family name is POTTER and mostly lived around the King’s Norton area. I am having some difficulty tracing my great grandfather’s wife. My father left a journal that stated that he remembered his grandfather Daniel POTTER who worked for a gunsmith and was very strong. As his father was born c1883, my father believed that Daniel was been born between 1840 and 1852. There are 3 or 4 candidates listed but none has a spouse named Rose SALINA. No-one can find any record of her which may be that she was not born in the UK – possibly Italy or Spain?
Does anyone have any knowledge of the POTTER family of King’s Norton?

[Ann65]

tried another search for this Daniel Potter. Once again came up with the same guy.

1891 Census
Kings Norton Worcs

Daniel Potter abt 1840 Birmingham, Warwickshire, Head
Flora Potter abt 1844 Birmingham, Warwickshire, Wife
Frank Potter abt 1866 Birmingham, Warwickshire, Son
Herbert Potter abt 1884 Kings Norton, Worcestershire, Son
Robert Potter abt 1871 Birmingham, Warwickshire, Son
Rosinia Potter abt 1875 Birmingham, Warwickshire, Daughter
Walter Potter abt 1881 Kings Norton, Worcestershire, Son

Are you absolutely sure that his wifes name was not Flora. I note one of the daughters is listed as "Rosinia" which seems fairly similar to Rose Salina.

[Ann65]

1881
5 Balsall Heath Road, Kings Norton Worc

Daniel Potter abt 1840 Birmingham Head Carver and Gilder
Flora Potter abt 1844 Birmingham Wife
Frank Potter abt 1866 Birmingham Son
Henry D. Potter abt 1864 Birmingham Son
Robert Potter abt 1871 Birmingham Son
Rose Potter abt 1875 Birmingham Daughter
Walter Potter Balsall Heath Son

[Ann65]

Free BMD Index
Marriages
Daniel Potter listed with a Flora Mascall Dec Qtr 1862 Birmingham
(Also on the page are William Greenway and Elizabeth Cooke)

[Ann65]

1851 Census
Highfield Place, Irving St, Birmingham, St Thomas Warks
Henry Potter 34 Shepston Worcs Journeyman Tailor
Maria Potter 32 Birmingham Warks Tailoress
Daniel Potter 11 Birmingham Warks Scholar

Free BMD Index
Marriages:
Henry Potter & Maria Scaresbrook Dec Qtr 1838 Shipston On Stour Worc

As for Flora Mascall:

1861 21 Horse Fair (looks like?),Birmingham St Thomas, Warks

Alfred Mascall abt 1841 Birmm, Warwickshire, Son Printer
Fanny Mascall abt 1859 Birmm, Warwickshire, Daughter
Flora Mascall abt 1844 Birmm, Warwickshire, Daughter Milliner
Frederick Mascall abt 1815 Birmm, Warwickshire, Head Tailor
George Mascall abt 1850 Birmm, Warwickshire, Son
Mary Mascall abt 1818 East New York, New York, American Samoa, Wife
Ladies feather dresser

[chopendoz]

First let me thank you for your research. I was beginning to think that I had come to an impasse. I went back and reread my father’s journal and it dawned on me that ‘Rose SALINA’ was simply a derivation of ‘Rosalina’ – possibly a
pet name that he knew his grandmother by. After all, when he remembered his grandfather and grandmother, who must have been near 80 years old, he was just a small boy. When I looked at the names of the children of Daniel and Flora,I just knew that there were right simply because the same names have been repeated throughout the POTTER family, Frank, Walter, Robert and Herbert are the recurring boys names. The girl’s names seem to be paying homage to wives’ families. Anyway, it all fell into place. I am now waiting on a birth certificate for Herbert which should confirm my belief.

I was particularly intrigued by the ‘Mary MASCALL’ entry.
I assume that she was born in New York of Samoan background?

I have only been looking at my family tree for a month (due to my daughter’s curiosity) but so far I have relatives in the England, Scotland, Malaysia, Thailand, Singapore, China, possibly New Zealand, Australia, USA and American Samoa.
I’m told that the POTTER name originates in Normandy prior to the Battle of Hastings in 1066 so who knows where else my ancestors may be?

One strange thing though. It seems to be easier to find an accessible record of my great-great grandfather than it is to find an accessible record of myself. I used to work for the Australian government and had access to many records. I could put together a file on practically anyone in Australia within a couple of days with a mass of information – tax, motor vehicles, medical, electoral roll, education, police record, real estate, bankruptcy, Immigration, Armed forces, BND, etc.
As a private citizen, I can find out very little.
The Privacy Act rules, it seems!

[Ann65]

Very glad to be of service. Ive found that generally, the simplest answers to the sometimes convoluted stories that come down to us, are right. As I think Ive said before on here, I love it when it all works out. :D

[Ann65]

IGI (www.familysearch.org)

Henry Potter bapt 22.06.1817 Shipston On Stour, Worc
son of Daniel Potter and Mary

other children of Daniel Potter and Mary:

William Harrison Potter c.22.10.1806 Shipston On Stour
Henry Potter c.09.10.1808 Shipston On Stour
Elizabeth Potter c.11.11.1810 Shipston On Stour
Ann Potter c.24.03.1813 Shipston On Stour
Anne Potter c.05.01.1815 Shipston On Stour
John Potter c.10.10.1820 Shipston On Stour
Mary Potter c.22.01.1823 Shipston On Stour

Daniel Potter married Mary Johnson 15.01.1806 Shipston On Stour

1841 Cenus - New Street, Shipston On Stour Worcs
Daniel Potter 55 (age to nearest 5 yrs) Tailor, not born in county.
Mary Potter 55 (age to nearest 5 yrs) born in county.
Next household:
William Potter 20 Tailor Journeyman not born in county
with George Butcher 25, and William Berrey 50.

[Ann65]

I did manage to pick up the actual reported date of Flora Mascalls marriage to Daniel Potter from the IGI: 29.12.1862 at St Thomas Birmingham.

Frederick Mascall b.circa 1815 died Dec Qtr 1881 Birmingham

Possible Marriages 1837-1842 Free BMD Index
Sept Qtr 1839 Kings Norton
Frederick Mascall - Mary Eliza Green Harding.

This will be them on the 1841 Census:
St Thomas Birmingham, Warks
Frederick Mackall 25 (age to nearest 5 yrs) Tailor
Mary Mackall 23 (age to nearest 5 yrs)
Alfred Mackall 10months
all born in the county

and here again on the 1851 Census:
Frederick Masell 36 Tailor Birmingham
Eliza Masell 33 Tailor born: New York, British Subject There is a tick in the column "whether blind, or deaf-and-dumb".
Alfred Masell 10 Scholar Birmingham
Flora Masell 7 Scholar Birmingham
Hubert Samuel Masell 4 Scholar Birmingham
George Masell 1

I dont think there is any doubt that in this last instance Eliza Masell is Mary Eliza Green Mascall nee Harding.

[chopendoz]

Again, thank you for your research – I have a lot of names to investigate further.

'I dont think there is any doubt that in this last instance Eliza Masell is Mary Eliza Green Mascall nee Harding'.
I think you have that right.

Eliza Masell 33 Tailor born: New York, British Subject There is a tick in the column "whether blind, or deaf-and-dumb".
‘Mary Mascall abt 1818 East New York, New York, American Samoa’

‘American Samoa’ rang a faint bell. I suddenly realised where I had heard it. It is the name given to American sign language! Nothing to do with the place, American Samoa – which only came into existence under that name in 1900 – long after the UK Census references.

I am intrigued by Mary Eliza. Consider, a deaf (or deaf & dumb) girl is born in New York City in 1818 – 3 years after the Battle of Waterloo and 18 years before the Alamo (to put it in historical context). She somehow manages to take a (quite expensive) passage on a ship to England and marries a humble tailor in Birmingham when she is 21.
How did she achieve this? Was her father a sea captain perhaps? Did she come from a rich family who could afford such a trip. This would be in the days when immigrants were arriving in America. Emigrating to England? Perhaps the family was returning from a failed attempt at immigration to America. Did the family have relatives in England? What could be their reason for being there? I would assume that she became a ‘tailor’ for Census purposes after she had married Frederick Mascall. This in an age where a handicapped girl would be hard pressed to find a husband. Intriguing to say the least.
I am going to research her further.
Thanks again for the valuable info.

[Ann65]

Shes one of those that will put meat on the bones of the family tree, a real story to tell, I think.
Great to hear that American Samoa is actually sign language, I didnt know that. I couldnt understand how she could be a "british subject" in one census and from American Samoa in another!! Id certainly go with the idea that the family had a failed attempt at Emigrating to New York, or perhaps they only went there on business, or to visit some other family who went there, and she just happened to come along whilst they were there, but it does seem extreme for a tailor.
Good luck with your research, and have fun!

Ann

[chopendoz]

[QUOTE=Ann65]1851 Census
Highfield Place, Irving St, Birmingham, St Thomas Warks
Henry Potter 34 Shepston Worcs Journeyman Tailor
Maria Potter 32 Birmingham Warks Tailoress
Daniel Potter 11 Birmingham Warks Scholar

Free BMD Index
Marriages:
Henry Potter & Maria Scaresbrook Dec Qtr 1838 Shipston On Stour Worc

I am not so sure that this is the right Henry. There is another Henry born in 1817, this one with a wife Martha, both born and married in Birmingham. He was a cabinet maker which seems to jell with Daniel's occupation of 'Carver & Gilder' more than the 'Shipston Henry' occupation of tailor. Father teaching his son a trade? Also the ties to Birmingham carry some weight. The Potter family seem to circulate around the area. The Shipston Potters seem to be tailors. The Question is - did the Birmingham Henry also have a son named Daniel born 1840?