Starting from the beginning.

[WaltonAus]

Hello everyone,
I've just spent the last hour or so reviewing replies to posts by other people in a similar situation to myself.
The most common piece of advice was "Get you certificates first". So I got out all the certs I have bought and re-read them to try to approach my dilemma systematically.
In brief here is what I "KNOW" from the certificates I have bought.

*Marriage 9th June 1917 in Melbourne Aust.
Walton Harry EUSTON Widower 17.1.1914 , Occupation: Labourer
Birth place Tryddyn Nth Wales
Parents: Wm EUSTON (Veterinary Surgeon),Mabel Mary NEWTON)
Ella Gertrude SMITH Spinster, Occupation: Waitress
Birth place Wedderburn Victoria Aust.
Parents: Samuel Hobbs SMITH, Sarah Ann Young BAKER

*Birth of 1st born. 18th April 1920 in Elsternwick, Melbourne Aust.
Shirley Walton EUSTON
Parents: Watton Harry EUSTON, Age 36 from Tryddyn Nth Wales
Ella Gertrude EUSTON (SMITH) Age 32 Wedderburn Vict.

*Death 6th January 1930 Walton Harry EUSTON Occupation: Painter, Age: 50
Cause of death: Arterio Sclerosis (years) Cardiac Failure (weeks)
Parents: William EUSTON (Vet. Surgeon), Mary EUSTON (NEWTON)
Burial 7th January 1930 at Springvale Springvale Cemetary (Melb)
Where born: Wales
How long in Australia & which State: 26 years Victoria
Spouse: Ella Gertrude SMITH, Age 38 in Prahan Victoria.
Children: Shirley Walton 9yrs, Ralph Alan 6yrs, Eric Bernard 2yrs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Using the above information could someone please advise me the next course of action to trace either Walton Harry or his parents in the UK.
I have tried to find immigration records for Walton's arrival in Aust. with no success. Ella's ancestors have been relatively easy to trace back to about 1800 in UK.

Kind Regards
Peter Euston

[Julie Tyrell]

Hi Peter

Did you ever find out who Walton was married to before, didn't it say on his marriage cert to Ella that he was widowed in 1914. Is it possible to search for a death of 'Mrs Euston' around that time period possibly in the Melbourne area??

Good luck Julie

[ChristineR]

Julie,

There was one lady that was a possibilty - but no death showed up anywhere - there was a child registered to her and who seemed to be Walton (but might not have been! as the birthplace was wrong) and that birth was registered exactly a year before Walton was claiming that he had become a widower. I thought it odd that both dates were the same, only a year apart. The birth was at Inglewood. Nothing further was sighted of either the child or the mother.

Anyhow, I had wondered if perhaps Walton had actually registered the birth of the child the same time as he had registered the death of the wife, and later on had just forgot the exact year when he had to record it for his next marriage. But, as stated no death showed up. He also claimed no children by the previous marriage, living or dead. So I would say there was something 'funny' going on if it was Peter's Walton.

Christine
(who also had the pleasure of studying all the certificates)

[ChristineR]

Hi again Peter,

I have been thinking hard and came up with two things you can do to help stop you from going insane over this :D or at least delay it a bit.

Firstly, I do feel that the child's birth you have is your Walton and his first wife - so you need to check if there really WAS a marriage in 1910 in New Zealand. His age is not far different, and there is the occupation of painter that cannot be overlooked - it is not as if his name was John Smith - there just wasn't many of them. Since we do not know who the informant was (being an authorised agent) it may have been someone other than Walton himself, which could explain the wrong birthplace. If Mabel Jane did not die, then she may have scarpered back off to New Zealand. Or maybe they were all there and he abandoned them. It is probably also worth trying to find deaths or marriages for the two children (George Eric Lines and William Henry) in New Zealand too.

The other thing you can do is to systematically go through and find every burial detail for your family that you can. Sometimes there may be a niece, nephew, cousin or a brother's wife or even a parent buried in the same grave, though they may not appear on the headstone. This could then lead you to find a sibling, sometimes this helps to break backwards. Springvale cemetery is operated by Necropolis, though they have just changed their name to something else and no longer have the database online. I suppose that you already have the plot details for that one anyhow.

These are the only things I can think off - short of going over to North Wales and questioning every historian in the place!

Christine

[ChristineR]

has anyone been able to find your family in this? from the Latter Day Saints catalogue.

Title
Treuddyn, Flintshire, Wales,[list of marriages] 1618-1908

Stmnt.Resp.
[Dafydd Hayes, Ray Masters]

Authors
Hayes, Dafydd (Main Author)
Masters, Ray (Added Author)

Notes
Title from cover.
Text in Welsh and English.
Includes transcriptions of the names of the brides and grooms, the year of marriage, and a register reference number. No index is included.
Variant spelling: Treddyn.
The county of Clwyd comprises the pre-1974 counties of Denbigh and Flint.
"Treuddyn was a chapelry of Mold parish until 1875 when a parish of that name was formed comprising the township of Treuddyn out of Mold parish. Treuddyn had long operated as an independent parish. Marriages in this list are confined to those celebrated at the parish church of Treuddyn."
IN Hayes computerised indexes, parish church marriages in the new county of Clwyd - [Flintshire] / [Dafydd Hayes, Ray Masters].

<FONT face="Arial Unicode MS,Arial,sans-serif">SubjectsNotes
Title from cover.
Text in Welsh and English.
Includes transcriptions of the names of the brides and grooms, the year of marriage, and a register reference number. No index is included.
Variant spelling: Treddyn.
The county of Clwyd comprises the pre-1974 counties of Denbigh and Flint.
"Treuddyn was a chapelry of Mold parish until 1875 when a parish of that name was formed comprising the township of Treuddyn out of Mold parish. Treuddyn had long operated as an independent parish. Marriages in this list are confined to those celebrated at the parish church of Treuddyn."
IN Hayes computerised indexes, parish church marriages in the new county of Clwyd - [Flintshire] / [Dafydd Hayes, Ray Masters].

Subjects
Wales, Flint, Treuddyn - Church records
Wales, Flint, Mold - Church records

Copies
Call Number - Location
942.935 K29h v. 2 - FHL BRITISH Reference - Available

Format
Books/Monographs

Language
Welsh
English

[Copper]

Hmm this man is a slippery eel :)

I noted the dates, ages and places from your info (certificates) and did the following seraches:-

1881 census transcibed on the LDS site - no Walton
1891 census index (via a pay to view site)- no Walton - no William occ vet

GRO birth index checked for years 1879 - 1882 inclusive and no Walton. In fact no Euston birth registered in Wales at all in those years.

Is it possible that Walton Euston has changed his name? I can't think of anything else at the moment.

[Julie Tyrell]

Is there a list of VET's/training colleges that Peter could search for Wm in???

Just a thought.

[Copper]

I have read the certificate info again carefully and I have noticed the following:-

Walton's death certificate gives his age as 50 which would mean he was born about 1880.

His age on the birth certificate for his first born suggests he was born about 1884.

I have checked the births again for the years 1883 - 1886 inclusive and again no Walton or any Euston birth in Wales.

I then thought that I would search for the marriage of William and Mabel. I used Free BMD and searched 1871 - 1891 inclusive. I drew a blank there too. The only years that are not complete for the years I searched are 1862 and 1863.

[WaltonAus]

A big hello to everyone,
Firstly let me say a big heartfelt thanks to everyone who has read and responded to my post. It is so nice to feel that you are not alone trying to scale a brickwall. To answer a few of the questions asked (not necessarily in order) let me add the following information.

I have posted in the forums about vets in the 1870's. I have also emailed several Vet Colleges and the Vet Registration Board all to no avail.

I have sent more than 300 emails to anybody with Wm EUSTON or Mary NEWTON in their tree (as identified on Genes Reunited).

The "other woman" referred to came as a result of searching Aust Digger records and getting 2 results for Walt Hy EUSTON.
The first was a marriage for Walt Hy EUSTON to Ruby Easton PRIGG in 1913
and the second was the birth of William EUSTON in 1913 to Walt Hy EUSTON & Mabel Jane LINES in 1913.
I have bought both these certs but was not able to determine anything definite.
On the marriage cert (to Ruby) Walton/Walter Henry/Harry ... difficult to say which ...... he is a bachelor from Stratford on Avon, occupation house decorator (family stories say he was a painter/decorator), age 29, son od ThomasEUSTON and Mary ???
On the birth cert for William Henry EUSTON it states that Walton/Walter Henry/Harry EUSTON is 31yrs and a painter from Leicester in England,his wife was Mabel Jane LINES 31yrs from New Zealand with a son George Eric LINES age 1 year.
I have been unable to find a death (or anything else) for Ruby, Mabel or William Henry.

I must say that I like Christine's suggestion best of all so if anyone has a spare plane ticket to Wales my bags are packed all ready.

If anyone has any specific questions you can email me on [email protected] and I will gladly help if I can.

Well I better make that do for now and go and do some work (earn some money).

Thankyou again and Kind Regards
Peter Euston

[Pam Downes]

Tryddyn/Treuddyn is in Chester registration district for 1870-1902, so my suggestion would be to search FreeBMD births for Chester RD for each quarter in turn for 1879 - 1884 (too much for the search engine to cope with all at once), leaving the name spaces blank.
Then look down the list of surnames first, noting any likely 'mis-heards' e.g. March 1880 has a Hughson. (That could easily corrupt into Hewson.) Also check the list of first names for any likely links.
I know FreeBMD is not complete but once you have a list of 'alternative' surnames, then it's easy to check for those in missing quarters in the GRO Index.
You can search the 1881 census for Wales online for free at
http://content.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=List&dbid=8059&offerid=0%3a7858%3a0
leave everything blank except for the civil parish and in that type Tryddyn. You'll get an alpha list of the inhabitants. The index is that of the LDS, so although it won't be perfect it should be less prone to errors than other years :) and will be slightly easier than 'walking through' the LDS site census. Again check the surnames and first names for clues.
I also had a quick glance for a marriage for Mary Newton. I didn't click on all the page numbers to find possible husbands but there's one marriage in December quarter 1875, Wrexham reg district, and a possible husband is John Wootton (or Charles Taylor). Perchance Wootton in a foreign country = Walton? I know I sound as if I'm clutching at straws but my great grandfather sometime after the age of 20 took his mother's maiden surname but gave his father's surname to his second son as a middle name. (And as most of the obvious things seem to have been exhausted, it's time to think out of the box :) )
Then of course there's - how much of his own/his parents' details were the truth?
Pam

[Pam Downes]

Sorry Peter. I was still typing while you were posting!
Pam

[ChristineR]

Further to Peter's post,

Ruby PRIGG has been discounted, as it turned out from subsequent records that the marriage may have been mistranscribed as EUSTON when it was ENSTON - this is the name she appears using later when she filed for a divorce (Peter, this is in an email direct to you sent a little while back:D)

On the PROV webiste, divorce cause books.
1921
ENSTON, Ruby Easton Respondent: ENSTON, Henry Walter - no other person
cited

The child that they had appears in the War Service files as ENSON

Title
ENSTON RONALD : Service Number - VX23764 : Date of birth - 22 Feb 1917 :
Place of birth - COLAC VIC : Place of enlistment - CAULFIELD VIC : Next of
Kin - BIRCH RUBY
Series number
B883

[ChristineR]

Digger - Great War Index. Victoria 1914-1920

Surname: ENSTON
Given Names: Ronald
Event: B
Sex:
Spouse Surname/Father: Harry Walt
Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Ruby Easton PRIGG
Age:
Age Code:
Birth Place: COLAC
Death Place:
Year: 1917
Reg. Number: 2473

Digger - Death Index. Victoria 1921-1985

Surname: BIRCH
Given Names: Ruby
Father: Prigg Joseph J
Mother: Eliza Jane RICHARDS
Death Place: ALBE
Age: 65
Age Code:
Year: 1958
Reg Number: 7862
Event: D

[ChristineR]

So that's Ruby's death ... of course, they could all be mistranscribed as ENSTON :D

Like Pam, I think it is now time to think that his surname is not the one he was born with. His mother may have remarried and he took on the name of the new husband. I'm not certain that you have the right mother's forename either - on Walton's marriage it looks like Mabel something, not Mary, it could be something Welsh. I would be more inclined to believe the marriage parent than the death parent.

I have had wrong people and occupations on marriage certs too - usually when there is some confusion about parentage. From going on what he had been told, not actual knowledge. Usually the only thing right is the mother's name.

C :)

[WaltonAus]

Hello again,
I thought I'd share with everyone some of the "almost" interesting findings so far.

Some “excerpts” of Census entries I found interesting.

*Town of Egham, Sanitary District of Windsor,

William EUSTON Head 64? Gardener Surrey Egham
Emma wife 48 Bucks Langley
George W
John W
Elizabeth E
Annie E
Charles W
Kate E
Lucy E
***Henry W 4
_________________________
*Town of Flint

William Hooson head 52 ship wright
Mary
***Walter 14
_____________________________
*Pennsylvania USA 1920 census

James Euston head 38 born Wales ***perhaps related … at least it is a
EUSTON from Wales
Harriet 40
Plus children - all born Wales
____________________________
*Birmingham, St Pauls, Christ Church

Thomas Eustace head 32 general dealer
Mary A
Thomas Henry 4
***Walter H 2
_________________________
*Hugglescote Donnington Leicester 1891 census

Mary Euston head 50
Emily 14
***Walter 12
Frederick 10
Bernard 3 *note: my father and I share the middle name of
Bernard
________________________________
*Hammersmith London

Alfred Euston head 47 ***house painter
Mary Ann 47
Alfred DOW? 15
Mary Ann 9
Alfred Wm 12
___________________________
*Gilchurch Derby

William WALTON head 32
Mary Ann 34
Charles
John
*** Harry WALTON 3
__________________________________
*Wasperton Warwick

Eliz EUSTON head Wid 60
John
Emma
***Walter/Walton? 2
William 1
______________________________
*Too faint to read where … perhaps St …….ficio’s Enfield ?

William EUSTON head 30
Mary 29
***William H 6
_______________________________
*Swansea ??
***William H Hughes head Wid 45 ***Vet surgeon born Glam Swansea???
Annie Roderick servant 37

As you can see there are some amazing coincidences. I had tried to highlight/italics the interesting part of each record but when I pasted it disappeared. I've just added *** to try to highlight the interesting bits. I have not put the census year for all of them because I'm not sure at the moment.
I have also looked at records … census & BMD … for Elston, Eyton, Hoosonther and I share the middle name of
Bernard
________________________________
*Hammersmith London

Alfred Euston head 47 ***house painter
Mary Ann 47
Alfred DOW? 15
Mary Ann 9
Alfred Wm 12
___________________________
*Gilchurch Derby

William WALTON head 32
Mary Ann 34
Charles
John
*** Harry WALTON 3
__________________________________
*Wasperton Warwick

Eliz EUSTON head Wid 60
John
Emma
***Walter/Walton? 2
William 1
______________________________
*Too faint to read where … perhaps St …….ficio’s Enfield ?

William EUSTON head 30
Mary 29
***William H 6
_______________________________
*Swansea ??
***William H Hughes head Wid 45 ***Vet surgeon born Glam Swansea???
Annie Roderick servant 37

As you can see there are some amazing coincidences. I had tried to highlight/italics the interesting part of each record but when I pasted it disappeared. I've just added *** to try to highlight the interesting bits. I have not put the census year for all of them because I'm not sure at the moment.
I have also looked at records … census & BMD … for Elston, Eyton, Hooson, Hughes, Easton, Eton, Eston, Houlston etc etc.

I hope you can all make sense of what I have written ... I certainly can't (HeHeHe).

Thankyou & Kind Regards
Peter Euston

[WaltonAus]

Still here to apologise to everyone for the "messy" last post. When I typed it up it looked OK but when I submitted it , it had duplicated most of it. I even tried deleting the message all together (twice) and re-doing it but the result is still the same. Bloody computers ... give me a pencil and paper any time.

Kind Regards
Peter Euston

[ChristineR]

Thanks Peter for the update census entries, you certainly do have some interesting possiblities there. (dont worry about the dreaded repeating text monster, editing makes it worse, then post was probably only a couple of words too long - a glitch in the program that cannot be ironed out apparenty)

Hugglescote Donnington Leicester 1891 census

Mary Euston head 50
Emily 14
***Walter 12
Frederick 10
Bernard 3 *note: my father and I share the middle name of
Bernard

This is by far the most interesting :D and certainly could well be the gentleman who was married to Mabel Jane Lines, who I think is your man anyhow.

I find I'm stressing out about it, so I know how you must feel :)

[WaltonAus]

Hello Pam & everyone,
I have tonight started on the task of reading every name for every quarter per year in the Chester Registration District (from 1879-84). I have finished the 4 quarters of 1879 and gone completely cross-eyed.

I am going to get a good night's sleep (hopefully) and resume again tomorrow.

Thankyou Pam for the suggestion (I think). At least it will all be worth it when I finally "dig up" Walton Harry somebody.

Goodnight everyone & Kind Regards
Peter Euston.

[WaltonAus]

Hello again, this is a message for Christine R. All this stress has resolved my grey hair problem ...... I've pulled it all out.

I think the census record that jumps out at me is Gilchurch Derby.
William WALTON head
Mary Ann wife
Harry WALTON son age 3


It's nice to get carried away and dream every now and then.

Kind Regards
Peter Euston

[WaltonAus]

Hello all,
It's Friday evening and I'm sitting here in a very philosophical frame of mind. I was just thinking, if there was never a Walton Harry EUSTON (as it is starting to look like) to have a son Eric Bernard EUSTON (my dad) then who am I ... or even deeper ... Am I?

Oh Boy! That is deep ....

Or to take a line from Monty Python's "Philosophers Song" ...
"I think therefore I am....!"

Kind Regards
Peter Euston

[WaltonAus]

Hello again, I finally got back to quarter by quarter searches on FreeBMD and tonight on a whim I thought I'd try "Walton Harry" (with no surname) and got no returns for Chester RD. Then I tried "Walton" ... no result .. then "Harry" and found 2 interesting names - Harry Hugheson in June Qtr 1882 & Harry Hughes in March Qtr 1884.
Then I tried "Walton Harry" for all districts and found a
Walton Harry LAYTON in March Qtr 1879.

Searching each Qtr I have picked up dozens of "mis-heards/sounds like" but it is a daunting prospect to find the "DEFINITE " link. I'll keep plodding until I either find my grand-father or "PROVE" he didn't exist as Walton Harry EUSTON.

Goodnight & Good Luck to everyone.
Kind Regards
Peter Euston.