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Betty Willson
06-08-2006, 2:59 AM
My grandfather was born 5 April 1864 at Talybont, Wales. I believe that Talybont is near Aberystwyth. I have a certified copy of an Entry of Birth, obtained by my grandfather in 1928. He was the son of Mary Pugh (late Davies formerly James) and Isaac Pugh. There are many family stories, handed down, regarding my grandfather and apart from these stories which I would like to verify by doing further research and the information of his birth I know nothing about his Welsh ancestors. Can anyone point me in the right direction to make a start. I have not travelled outside of Australia. Is there still such a place as Tallybont near Aberystwyth? I am especially interested to know the name of the Welsh Baptist church at Tallybont and if it still exists. My grandfather's grandparents (James & Mary James) were supposedly founders of this church. I would appreciate any help at all. Thanks! Betty Willson

Sharron
06-08-2006, 7:43 AM
http://www.tal-y-bont.org/

http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/htsearch?words=tal-y-bont&method=and&format=builtin-short&matchesperpage=20&sort=score&config=genuki

Betty, you may find what you need on these links.

HTH,

Sharron

Betty Willson
07-08-2006, 12:15 AM
Thanks Sharron, I'll have a look at the web sites you have given me. I did make a feeble attempt ages ago to gain some information via the internet but was not successful. My daughter, when she was touring around Europe, and having a wonderful time, spent a few days at Aberystwyth about 20 years ago. She was not very interested in family history but did manage to find a very old grave stone with the inscription written in Welsh that she thought might be the grave (s) of my g.g.grandparents James & Mary James. "Silly girl" didn't know exactly where she was? and also managed to "mislay" the book we had, also written in the Welsh language about the James family and their connection with the church. We are good friends now but she is still not much interested in ancestors. I'll let you know if I find any useful information. I am very grateful for your reply. Betty Willson

Sharron
07-08-2006, 12:22 AM
Hi Betty. Strange about your daughter, as it's usually boys who behave like that!!

Let me know if there's anything else I can do.

Sharron

Ladkyis
07-08-2006, 8:46 AM
There is also a Talybont in Breconshire - and relatively close by is the Monmouthshire parish of Aberystruth (pronounced "Aber strooth" in the locality). I wouldn't like you to think that finding Welsh ancestors was going to be easy especially with the surname JAMES


Ann
living in Newport Gwent

Betty Willson
08-08-2006, 12:32 AM
To Sharron & Ladkyis, I realize it is a big task to find any information about my Welsh grandfather's family. I have just stories told to me by my mother who was told them by her father. My mother died in 1945 so I can't say, "are you sure about this mum?" BUT I truly think that might be the Tabernacle mentioned on that web site you gave me Sharron. I think the book they talk about is the one we had. It was given to an aunt of mine in early 1950's when she visited Aberystwyth. There is a James James 1837-1914 mentioned in the book but of course the dates are wrong to be my ancestor unless he was my grandfather's uncle. My grandfather's name was William Pugh and that name is as common as James in Wales, I believe. I've been busy trying to trace my father's side of the family and have come to a dead end so might as well try the Welsh connection. My grandfather came to Australia to get away from religion. He was a firm believer in Darwin's Theory of Evolution and had a bookcase full of well read books on the subject. Thanks for your replies, Betty Willson

Betty Willson
08-08-2006, 1:22 AM
Ladkyis, I've had another thought. If I give you all the information on the Certified Copy of an Entry of Birth (dated 1 September 1928) for my grandfather, you may be able to tell me which Talybont I should be concentrating on. Here goes - "Reg. Dist. Aberystwyth, 864, Sub-Dist. Geneurglyn, County of Cardigan, No. 352, fifth April 1864 Talybont Cynnullmawr, William, Boy, Isaac Pugh, Mary Pugh Late Davies formerly James, Wheel Wright, Mary Pugh mother Talybont Cynnullmawr, thirtieth April 1864, Signature of Reg. John Blackwell..........David Evans, Deputy Dist. of Aberystwyth County of Cardigan Entry No. 352 (Signed D. Evans, Deputy)" I hope you can understand what I have typed. Best wishes Betty

Ladkyis
08-08-2006, 8:34 AM
You are correct in thinking that the Talybont you need is the one close to Aberystwyth not the one in Breconshire.

I wish I knew more about it and could help more.

Ann

Betty Willson
08-08-2006, 11:06 AM
Thanks Ladkyis. It would be expecting a bit much for anyone to know much about someone born in 1864. I intend to join a Welsh Intereast Group at the Family Research Centre nearby. Don't suppose I'll find out much but I'll meet a few more people! That should be interesting anyway. All the best, Betty

Betty Willson
11-08-2006, 12:53 AM
Dear Sharron, Please!!! I am overwhelmed by the magnitude of the web site you thought might be a help to me. The place names are unbelievable. I have no idea how to pronounce any of them and can finally understand my daughter saying that she didn't know exactly where she was for the short time she was nearby Aberystwyth. Could you suggest a starting point for me. My grandfather arrived in Australia in 1886 so I thought I might start with a census but I have no idea of the place name I should try for on "say the 1871 census". I did read somewhere that some of the county names have been changed. Do you know if this is so? Please, what is my best line of attack? Thanks for giving me the web addresses. Best wishes, Betty

Ladkyis
11-08-2006, 10:21 AM
the 1871 census says this

RG10/5564 Folio72 page 15
Cynullmawr Talybont
Name Rel Sta age Occ Where born
James James Head Mar. 63 Wool Weaver Cardiganshire
Mary James Wife Mar 79 Weavers wife "
Mary Morris Dau Mar 38 Visitor "
James Pugh G son 14 "
Mary Ann Pugh G Dau 11 "
John Pugh G son 9 "
William Pugh G son 14 "
Mary Ann Pugh G Dau 11 "
John Pugh G son 9 "
William Pugh G son 7 "
William Morris 9 "

I feel a bit more helpful now:D
Ann

Ladkyis
11-08-2006, 10:22 AM
OH it didn't put it exactly as I laid it out but I think you can see

Betty Willson
12-08-2006, 11:12 AM
Dear Ann (Ladkyis), I can't thank you enough. The William Pugh On the 1871 census is the correct age for my grandfather (i.e.7). What do you think it was about life in Wales that turned my grandfather into a disbeliever? He was such a wonderful family man. What do you make of the copy of his birth certificate? (as I gave in the information before)? He was such an interesting, well read, kindly old man when I was old enough to appreciate him. It was said that his grandparents James and Mary James were the founders of the Welsh Baptist church at Talypont. Do you think this was just a myth? I would truly like your opinion. Do you think his mother was the Mary Morris mentiond on the facts of the 1871 census you have given me? Did she remarry someone named "Morris"? ( i.e after her second marriage to Isaac Pugh). Perhaps Isaac Pugh died? My ancestors seem to be turning over in their graves defying me to find out about them! Do you think I should stop digging? I have so many stories I could tell about my grandfather. Best wishes, Betty Willson

Ladkyis
12-08-2006, 12:13 PM
Williams Birth certificate seems normal to me - I took the liberty of having a little rummage on 1837online and this is what I found

Death of an Isaac Pugh Aberystwyth Volume 11b page 47 Sept qtr 1865

Marriage Mary Pugh Aberystwyth Volume 11b page 101 Mar qtr 1869.

These certificates can be purchased through the cetificates online website at
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

you have to register and then the certificates cost 7pounds each.

If it was me I would be scraping the pennies together to get the death certificate.

I looked at marriages on the FreeBMD website http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
and there is an Edwin Morris on the same page - the same volume and page number so the chances are that she married him although you should not assume anything.
I hope this helps
Ann

Betty Willson
13-08-2006, 1:27 AM
Thanks again Ladkyis. I'd never have found the information you have given me in a million years. I'll send for the cerificates now! I'll let you know when I receive them. I notice on the family information of the 1871 census that there is another William Pugh G son aged 14. I assume that is a tiny error? The Pugh children's ages seem to all slot in (James 14, Mary Ann 11, John 9 William 7). I am amazed that my grandfather had at least 3 siblings. I am "almost" sure that he did not keep in touch with his family after he left Wales. He learned English, as he could only speak Welsh, in Australia. He was 96 when he died in 1960 and still able to read and listen to "the News" on the radio. Best wishes Ann, Your kindness is much appreciated. Betty

Ladkyis
13-08-2006, 9:27 AM
That is the fault of the dreaded repeating text bug that haunts this forum. That William doesnt exist the bug has combined the first bit of William with the las bit of James and then repeated everything after James again.
There is no point in editing it because we have found that it simply makes things worse so just pick out all the different names and NO repeats LOL

Betty Willson
24-08-2006, 7:05 AM
Hello Ladkyis, I have received the two certificates (i.e. Death Cert. for Isaac Pugh and Marriage Cert. for Mary Pugh (widow) to Edwin Morris (widower). Mary James was the informant for the death of her son-in-law Isaac Pugh. Mary Pugh and Edwin Morris were married in the Registers' Office. After the stories handed down about the founding of The Welsh Baptist Church at Talybont, I find this surprising. Can you suggest how I might find if my grandfather's mother had any siblings? Thanks again and best wishes, Betty Willson