Death Certificate 1928

[Coneyman]

Can anyone tell me why i cant find the registered death of my Grandmother pls. I know she died of TB in Cobham, Surrey in 1928 and my Mum went to live with her Dads Sister & Husband in Cobham as her Dad had died of the same thing 18 months before, I've found his but cant find hers, and as she had family around her they would have registered it surely.
Will the regster offices do a 'sweeping search' for me for that year dyu think?
Her married name was Caroline Collison. I also have that certificate!!!
I think i'm gonna have to give up this search as i cant get anywhere (have been trying for the best part of 12 months). I Cant find her Birth Certificate either. O well, never mind.
Margaret.

[Wirral]

Hi Margaret

I've just checked the GRO index from 1926 - 1930 & no Caroline Collison death anywhere. I also checked under Collinson. It could be a mistake in the GRO index. Have you checked under her maiden name in case she was registered under that by mistake?
Try contacting the Register Office for Cobham directly & see if they can look through their records. It came under Epsom. You could also try contacting the Epsom Family History Group http://members.aol.com/EFHGinfo/

[Peter Goodey]

Well, pretty much as Wirral suggests but with the caveat that if she actually died in hospital and if the hospital wasn't actually in Cobham or even in the Epsom registration district, approaching the local register office wouldn't help.

It might be more productive to try GRO rather than guess at the local register office. Order a 3 year search around 1928. I think it costs £13.50 or thereabouts (less if they can't find anything). Don't be too specific about the supporting details that you're not absolutely sure about and allow for spelling variations

A final thought - how certain are you about her forname(s)? You said you couldn't find a birth certificate. Perhaps she was born under another name but preferred Caroline.

As Wirral suggested, funny things happen when people register deaths. Maiden name, different forenames even the daughter's married name might not be impossible.

[Wirral]

Hi Margaret
How old was your mum when your grandparents died? Could she have been sent to live with her aunt & uncle when your grandmother went into hospital, rather than when she died? If your mum was only little at the time, it may be easy to confuse dates.
What details were given on your grandfather's death certificate? Did he die in hospital? Who registered the death & what registration district was the death registered in?
I'll try looking at wider dates than 1928 +/-2. So far I haven't seen any deaths that looked likely, either for area or name.

[Pam Downes]

Hi Margaret,
Do you have Caroline's marriage certificate with (hopefully) her father's name on it?
I found a Carry Leavens on the 1901 census in Cambridge (RG13/1529 folio 163 page 38) with father Harry, and siblings Thomas, Jessie, Earnest (sic), and Sidney. No mother listed though Harry is shown as 'M', not 'W'.
However in 1891 Harry's wife is Annie, aged 29, and there is a death registration June quarter 1900 Cambridge RD for an Annie aged 38.
In 1901 Carry's age is three, and FreeBMD shows a birth registration for Caroline Mary Leavens in March quarter 1898.
As in 1901 there are only 56 or 64 Leavens in the whole of England and Wales (depending to which index you refer) I think this must be your grandmother.
Pam

[Coneyman]

Hi Margaret

I've just checked the GRO index from 1926 - 1930 & no Caroline Collison death anywhere. I also checked under Collinson. It could be a mistake in the GRO index. Have you checked under her maiden name in case she was registered under that by mistake?
Try contacting the Register Office for Cobham directly & see if they can look through their records. It came under Epsom. You could also try contacting the Epsom Family History Group http://members.aol.com/EFHGinfo/
Thanx for that info, i will try them. I tried all that u did but reached the same conclusion.
Kind regards
Margaret.

[Coneyman]

Hi everyone, thanx for all the replies.
Pam. Yes i have her marriage certificate which is wot threw me as i thought she was the Caroline Mary in Cambridge, but her cert. states her name as Caroline Annie Dorothy Leavens and her father is Henry (deceased) which i know was often used for Harry. Why would she change her middle names? Altho the Annie i can understand but where did she get Dorothy from? Have been back thru the Leavens line and cant find a Dorothy, not even one that died at birth. She married at St. Georges Hanover Square in 1924 when Betty my mother born that year.
Wirral: Betty was 4 when her Mum died, Carry registered Jack Collisons death in 1925 of TB in the Croydon Borough Sanitorium. I think the year is pretty accurate of Carrys death as my Uncle gave me the info before he died 2 yrs ago and also because his parents died at the same time only he was 10 yrs old and he went to live with Betty with the same Uncle & Aunt.
I'm rambling now so i will shut up.
Also thanx to u too Peter for yr help.
Regards Margaret.

[Pam Downes]

.
Pam. Yes i have her marriage certificate which is wot threw me as i thought she was the Caroline Mary in Cambridge, but her cert. states her name as Caroline Annie Dorothy Leavens and her father is Henry (deceased) which i know was often used for Harry. Why would she change her middle names? Altho the Annie i can understand but where did she get Dorothy from? Have been back thru the Leavens line and cant find a Dorothy, not even one that died at birth. Hi Margaret,
It wasn't at all unusual for people to change their names. I've got a rellie whose birth registration was Sophia Jessie, but she married as Jessie Sophia. My granddad was Thomas William, but called himself Thomas Frederick when he married and when he registered the births of two of his children. It could be that Dorothy was the 'in' name that year. It could even be that the vicar made a mistake - did Caroline sign all three names in full?
Because of the early death of Caroline's hubby, do we assume your mum was an only child? Do you have her birth certificate, and what names are given for the mother - and who registered the birth?


I think the year is pretty accurate of Carrys death as my Uncle gave me the info before he died 2 yrs ago and also because his parents died at the same time only he was 10 yrs old and he went to live with Betty with the same Uncle & Aunt. I was going to ask if your uncle really was 10 in 1928, and if you knew who his parents were and if you've found their death registrations but.......
I've had a further brainwave. |idea| (Wait for the light :D)
Is it at all possible that Caroline married again after Jack's death? Second hubby no blood relation to your mum, no idea about looking after small children, only too pleased to hand your mum over to blood relatives. Therefore no reason for his name ever to be mentioned again. Very good reason for no death to be registered in name of Collison.
Pam

[Coneyman]

"I was going to ask if your uncle really was 10 in 1928, and if you knew who his parents were and if you've found their death registrations but.......
I've had a further brainwave. (Wait for the light )
Is it at all possible that Caroline married again after Jack's death? Second hubby no blood relation to your mum, no idea about looking after small children, only too pleased to hand your mum over to blood relatives. Therefore no reason for his name ever to be mentioned again. Very good reason for no death to be registered in name of Collison."
Pam
Hi again Pam
Yes I know and have the certs for Uncles parents (they also died of TB, God if was rife then!!) His surname was Gudge.
There wasn't enough time for Carry to marry again as her hubby died in 1925 and she in '28. Betty was their only child and she died of Cancer in 1968. Uncle Alf spoke so highly of her, that i dont think she would've handed Betty over like that.
Just as a matter of interest if u like a bit of Gore, Jack's Mother was a Bashfor and her ancestor was the victim in the infamous Brighton Trunk Murder in the 1800's. I found all this out so easily too so u can understand my frustration at not being able to further up Carrys Line.
I'm rambling again, so once again Thanx for all yr help.
Kind regards Margaret.

[Pam Downes]

There wasn't enough time for Carry to marry again as her hubby died in 1925 and she in '28. Betty was their only child ... Hi Margaret,
I would agree that there is very little time for marriage if you take into account the proper period of mourning and other 'social' elements, but stranger things have happened. Worth having a look anyway, and I would look under Annie and Dorothy as well as Caroline/Mary. If you find a marriage, then look for a death, aged 29/30/31 years.
I can understand your frustration at what seems a simple quest turning into a massive brickwall when other stuff can be found at the snap of your fingers. I found all of my cousin's relatives on the census, plus most of the BMD registrations on FreeBMD, except for her (then unmarried) great grandparents on the 1871 census. Who are also the two who are my great grandparents. Aaaaaaaargh!
Pam

[Coneyman]

I've tried the differing Caroline/Mary names, and have heard back from the Cambridge Baptism place and it would seem that Caroline Mary wasn't baptised there (they checked all the local parish records for me too) BUT i will check the Annie/Dorothy names again, as for the re-marriage thingy Uncle Alf would have told me I'm sure, also she would have been a bit fickle to do that as she only married in 1924.
Just had a brainwave.....................
On her marriage cert. it states that Jack is a Footman at 180 Queens Gate, SW7 where he was residing at time of marriage AND Caroline was residing there too but under the profession for her it is blank, could it be possible she was the daughter of the Owner Jack was a footman for? (Very Upstairs, Downstairs A.) Is there a way of finding an address on the internet dyu think?
Once again Many many thanx.
Margaret.

[Pam Downes]

Hi Margaret,
I don't think it's very likely that Caroline was the daughter of the house, as the man who would seem to be her father in the 1901 census is then only a general labourer. Queensgate SW7 is Kensington, so quite a well-to-do address.
If Caroline did remarry, it would not necessarily mean she was fickle. With no welfare state she would have had to rely on family. Widower, wants a housekeeper. Willing to accept a small child in the house. Or widower with children who needs someone to look after them.
Chances are that she didn't marry again, but you do need to rule out all possibilities.
Pam

[Coneyman]

Hi Margaret,
I don't think it's very likely that Caroline was the daughter of the house, as the man who would seem to be her father in the 1901 census is then only a general labourer. Queensgate SW7 is Kensington, so quite a well-to-do address.
If Caroline did remarry, it would not necessarily mean she was fickle. With no welfare state she would have had to rely on family. Widower, wants a housekeeper. Willing to accept a small child in the house. Or widower with children who needs someone to look after them.
Chances are that she didn't marry again, but you do need to rule out all possibilities.
Pam

Hi again Pam,
It takes me ages to find this page, but get there in the end. Yes i know Queens Gate well, u say it's well to do, but I was raised in the Kings Rd, Chelsea, which is now very expensive, but wasn't then, it was normal with normal shops (hate it now tho). We are gonna drive to Cobham soon to see if we can further this on as Caroline lived in Portsmoth Rd, which is still there, so wish me luck. Will let u know how i get on. Will also trace the address of the Aunt & uncle Betty went to live with when Carry died.
Margaret.

[Linda]

Hi Margaret


It takes me ages to find this page
Can I make a suggestion?

Go to the menu at the top of this page and select "User CP"

Select "Edit Options" (under Settings and Options) from the menu on the left side of the User CP page

On the Edit Options page look under the heading Messaging & Notification.

Here you can select the Default Thread Subscription Mode, where you can choose to receive email notification (instant, daily, weekly) of replies in threads that you have posted.

When you have made your selection, scroll to the bottom of the page and select "Save Changes"

:)

[Coneyman]

Thank u for that Linda, I shall do that now.
Regards Margaret.

[Coneyman]

Hi all of u,
Just to let u know that i've had access to the 1911 census and my Caroline (Carrie) is the one from Cambridge as she was staying with (visiting) the Pilsworth family in Hitchin, Herts, (which is where Betty her daughter was born) at the time so can at last marry this up. PLUS, PLUS, PLUS!!! I have finally found Jack Collison's Grave (no i cant believe it either) it is in Cobham, BUT there's no record of Carrie buried with him, so still searching for her death cert, but this old girl dont give up!!!
Cheers everyone,
Regards Margaret.

[Pam Downes]

Hi Margaret,
What a brilliant result after all this time. |jumphappy
And more good news is that not only have FreeBMD got as far as 1928 with some of the death registrations, but that they have even better search facilities. (http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/advanced-facilities.html)
I've had a quick look for a Caroline, no surname, death registered in Surrey in 1928, but there's nothing that leaps out at me, though the indexes are still very far from complete. If I were you, I would also check out 1927 and 1929, and the counties surrounding Surrey just in case, as Peter said, she died in a hospital outside of Epsom registration district. And I would also check for any other first names she might have used.
The reason I omit the surname is that if there has been an indexing error, or a marriage, then searching for Collison alone will not help in your search.
Very much an on-going quest, but hopefully you will get a result.
Pam

[JenniLl]

May I throw in a spanner?

Is it possible that she went abroad to a Sanitarium and died overseas? Just a thought.

Jenni

[Coneyman]

Thanx for that info, i shall delve there also, tho i dont hold out much hope as someone on that site said that a lot of records were lost or burnt when the Sanitorium closed, or was it a fire in the Council offices (cant remember now!!) Never mind, i wont give up tho.

Hello JenniLI.
No i dont think she would have had time to go abroad, also her family were all around her in Surrey, i.e. the Collisons & Bashfords etc., who took in Betty the daughter when she was 4, i assumed that was when she died. But have checked up to 4yrs in advance anyway, as i know how slow and ongoing T.B. is as my Brother had it in the early 1960's. Thanx anyway.

Margaret.

[Pam Downes]

Thanx for that info, i shall delve there also, tho i dont hold out much hope as someone on that site said that a lot of records were lost or burnt when the Sanitorium closed, or was it a fire in the Council offices (cant remember now!!) Never mind, i wont give up tho.

Hello JenniLI.
No i dont think she would have had time to go abroad, also her family were all around her in Surrey, i.e. the Collisons & Bashfords etc., who took in Betty the daughter when she was 4, i assumed that was when she died. But have checked up to 4yrs in advance anyway, as i know how slow and ongoing T.B. is as my Brother had it in the early 1960's. Thanx anyway.

Margaret.
Margaret - you say that you've checked up to four years in advance, but do you mean that you've checked up to four years after Betty went to live with her relations? Certainly worth checking the GRO Index for several years after your 'assumed' date of death. And checking FreeBMD every 3 months or so, using their advanced search facilities.
Pam

[Coneyman]

Margaret - you say that you've checked up to four years in advance, but do you mean that you've checked up to four years after Betty went to live with her relations? Certainly worth checking the GRO Index for several years after your 'assumed' date of death. And checking FreeBMD every 3 months or so, using their advanced search facilities.
Pam

Hi Pam
Yes that's wot i meant, i actually went up to 1935 in case she was in hospital a long time before she died, am searching the site now again as we speak. Will let u know how i get on. Cheers again.
Margaret.

[Coneyman]

Nope.........No Luck again!!! O well, i shall soldier on.
Margaret.