can anyone help me?

[terrij]

Hi
I am hoping someone may be able to help me with my search. I am trying to trace the marriage of Henry Garnham to "Fanny ?".They appear in the 1861 census of Boston Lincolnshire and had 7 children ranging from 23 years old to 9 years old.At that time Henry was 54 and Fanny was 51 years old I figure the were married about 1836/37.The wife "Fanny" died in boston 1866. My main reason for the search is to find out the maiden name of "Fanny"
Can someone point me in the right direction. I am fairly new at this.
It has taken me ages to get to this point. Incorrect BDM information hear in Australia has been a problem.
Hope to hear from someone.

[ChristineR]

Depending how much you want to know - purchasing the birth registration of one of the children would reveal the mother's maiden name. Were they born in Boston too?

You will get to the stage where you will have to look at Parish registers for baptisms and marriages if they are not already extracted on the IGI, or found elsewhere on the internet.

I sympathise with incorrect BDM information - it can lead you up the wrong roads quite easily - especially death certifcates which are only as good as the knowledge of the informant, and times of grief are not the best of times for remembering details.

Christine
Australia

[ET in the USA]

The following is from a search on the free website freebmd.rootsweb.com

Some or all of them may match the children named on the census. If you find matches, you can order Birth/Marriage or Death certs. online at www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates with your credit card and they will be airmailed to you. Cost is GBP7 and will be converted to A$ on the bill. The important info is the year and quarter (e.g. Mar 1838), the volume (e.g. 14) and the page (e.g. 232) and of course the name as is appears. Don't choose Mary Jane in 1856, her page number is not complete. A birth cert. for a child should tell you the name of the mother, such as "Fanny Garnham formerly ___________). You now have her maiden name.
Civil registration began Sept Qtr 1837. The marriage is not there.


Births Mar 1838
Garnham Mary Ann Boston 14 232

Births Mar 1846
Garnham Edwin Boston 14 256

Births Dec 1846
Garnham Daniel Hinson Boston 14 262

Births Jun 1847
GARNHAM Jane Boston 14 243

Births Mar 1848
Garnham Samuel Kelk Boston 14 274

Births Sep 1849
GARNHAM Fanny Boston 14 257

Births Mar 1852
GARNHAM Emily Ann Boston 7a 376

Births Jun 1856
Garnham Mary Jane Boston 7a _75

Births Dec 1860
GARNHAM Thomas Henry Boston 7a 332

Births Mar 1861
Garnham Frederick William Boston 7a 346

Births Sep 1862
GARNHAM John Robert Boston 7a 361

Also, here is the entry for Fanny's death. It will not tell you her maiden name.

Deaths Jun 1866
GARNHAM Fanny 56 Boston 7a 250

[ET in the USA]

This information is from www.familysearch.org. In this particular case, the information has been submitted by a fellow researcher and not taken directly from Parish Records. It should therefore be treated as a tool, not as fact.

It makes sense that Fanny might have been born Frances. If you find this info is correct, after checking it on a child's birth cert, you have my sympathy, cuz you will have to search for Smith :)


Henry Garnhem
Male
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: About 1807 Of, Boston, Lincoln, England
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages:
Spouse: Frances Smith
Marriage: 28 MAY 1832 Boston, Lincoln, England

[terrij]

Thank you for the info. I think my next step is to follow your advise and order a certificate

[terrij]

Thank you ET
The info you supplied seems to fit. You have me worried re: the Smith thing.
Oh well, my name being Jones I suppose I shouldn't complain

[Pam Downes]

Hi Terri,
I don't know how new you are to this family history lark, but the first rule is 'never assume'.
The second rule is 'never assume on the evidence of one census'. I know of two people who would have been chasing wrong grandmothers had they relied on one census. While civil registration exists and there is a BMD registration event for your direct line then my advice is always to purchase the certificate.
Just because Henry is married to Fanny in 1861 it doesn't mean that he was married to her in 1841 or 1851, so you must look at earlier census. Even then it's still not safe to assume - the Elizabeth married to John in 1871 is not necessarily the same Elizabeth he was married to in 1861.
Earlier census also give earlier children so can hopefully give a more accurate marriage date.
The good news is that Henry's wife in 1851 was Fanny, and Frances in 1841, which does seem to point to just one wife.
Lincolnshire FHS have published marriage indexes for all deaneries between 1700 and 1837, and Holland East deanery has the entry Henry Garnham and Frances Smith 28 May 1832 Boston St Botolph.
As you now know the date you can either ask Lincolnshire Archives for a photocopy of the PR entry or if you have a local LDS FHC they will be able to order the film of the PR for you.
Pam

[terrij]

Hi Pam
Yes I know exactly what you mean about assuming. am new to this and find that with the confusing details I am finding, I am forced to assume or make educated guesses in some cases.Let me give a brief history. Hopefully someone reading this can explain.
My great grandmother and grandfather known to all in Australia as Frances and William Gildersleeves. Death certificates and marriage certificates in Australia confirmed this sir name. They arrived here in 1887 with children, Adelaide, William, Lilly, Mabel and Fanny.These children were born in Ipswich. After much searching I found such a family in BDM records however their names were all registerd as Gilder not Gildersleeves.Even the ship passenger list states the name Gildersleeves and all decendants here have the name Gildersleeves. It seems they may have changed their name prior to leaving England.
According to my info Fanny's fathers name was Robert Garnham. I am not able to find such a person who had a daughter"Fanny" born in 1849/50.
However did find a Henry Garnham hence the route I am taking now.
So as you can see I am dealing with frances/Fanny, Gilder/Gildersleeves
with a Father Robert/Henry.
Is it any wonder I am confused

[Pam Downes]

Hi Terri,
My apologies, but I might be about to shatter (some of) your research so far.
Firstly, I need to know if you have the date the ship sailed from the UK. If it was after 3/4th April 1881, then I am almost certain that I've found the family living in Ipsiwch in the 1881 census.
If you don't have immediate access to Ancestry, then you can still find them online via
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=census/search_census.asp
William Gilder is 30, born Suffolk, living Suffolk.
RG11/1870 folio 98 page 30.
Ties up with Gilder births in Ipswich registration district between March 1871 and December 1881, and a marriage of William Gilder to either Fanny Garnham or Louisa Rayner in December quarter 1874 in Ipswich registration district.
All found courtesy of
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/
(For the marriage search for William Gilder, then click on the page number and you get all the people transcribed so far who are on the same page of the marriage register. In 1874 there were two marriages per page, so all the names have been transcribed.)
You need to get this marriage certificate.
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
Hopefully it will have the correct name of Fanny's father.
I think that you will find the Fanny Garnham from Boston married John Appleby in June quarter 1868 in Boston registration district. In approx 10 days I should have access to one set of PRs for Boston, so will try to remember to have a look to see if I can find the marriage.

continued to avoid duplication.....

[Pam Downes]

The 'continued to avoid duplication' will have to wait about another 18 hours I'm afraid. I've just noticed a rather large problem with what I was going to write and I don't have time to sort it. I have to get up again in two hours' time so must go to bed.
Pam

[terrij]

Hi Pam
Shatter away by all means.
Yes I accessed the records you suggested and they seem to be the correct ones. All the ages of the children correspond with an old family bible.
The ship Chollerton reached Australia March 1887.
Which certificate would give me Fanny's maiden name?
terri

[Pam Downes]

Hi Pam
Which certificate would give me Fanny's maiden name?
terriHi Terri, Will quickly answer this question before I try to pick where I left off :)
Strictly speaking, you should apply for the birth certificate of the child who is your direct ancestor. As ET has said in message no. 3. (though with regard to the Frances/Fanny in Boston and not the on married to William Gilder) this will give the mother's name and then say 'formerly' which usually refers to the maiden name. So in this instance you would hope to see 'Fanny Gilder formerly Garnham' written.
In theory Fanny's marriage certificate should give her father's name, but many times the father's (first) name wasn't known so any old name was given.
For all the gen on BMD certificates in England and Wales
http://www.dixons.clara.co.uk/Certificates/indexbd.htm
Pam

[Pam Downes]

now to the 'continued' bit....

I originally wrote a whole load of stuff about Fanny Garnhams born 1848/1849 +/- so many years but then realised that it didn't show the Fanny who married William, so I will now begin again.

Peoples ages in ye olde days varied from census to census (for instance, someone aged 20 on the 1861 census will only be 27 on the 1871) so I always search age on a +/- so many years basis, and if it's a common name I just enter a specific year at a time but still search the same time span.

Based on the info you first gave re Fanny born 1849/1850, I searched the 1851 census for Fanny Garnham, born 1849 +/- 2 years. Only two results, so thought I'd make doubly sure by searching born 1848 +/- 5years. Now have a total of three.
Born 1846 Lewes Sussex
Born 1848 Claydon Suffolk
Born 1850 Boston Lincs

The same search on the 1861 census results in
Born 1848 Long Preston Yorks. Now listed as Fanny M, living in Tenterden Kent with father with same name as the Fanny born Lewes on the 1851 census
Born 1848 Claydon Suffolk
Born 1850 Boston Lincs

1871 census results are
one born 1847 living in Hammersmith, but she's a wife so not connected with our original three.
One born 1844, Eye Suffolk, living in London.



Continued again…

[Pam Downes]

Perusal of FreeBMD shows the marriages of a Fanny Garnham to a John Appleby in Boston registration district in June quarter 1868, and a Fanny Matilda Garnham in Tenterden registration district in June quarter 1870.

So that just leaves the one originally said born 1848 Claydon Suffolk to find.



But…….

The other first rule in genealogy is never try to leap a generation, and always go backone step at a time.

The logical sequence you should have followed was:

You know that William and Fanny were in England in 1881. Find them in the 1881 census. Fanny’s age and birthplace quoted in that – 26 (i.e. born c1855) and Earl Soham Suffolk. (Even though you searched the 1851, 1861 and 1871 census by using quite a broad base, it still didn’t pick up this Fanny.)

[/size]

Going back one step at a time, you now search for Fanny in the 1871 census. If you’re like me, your search isn’t very successful.

No Fanny Garnham born 1855 +/- 5years in Suffolk.

No Fanny born 1855 +/- 5 years in Earl Soham Suffolk

Plenty of Fanny’s born 1855 +/- 5years in Suffolk



Give up as a bad job and try 1861 census.

Fanny Garnham born 1855 +/- 5years in Suffolk. Bingo.



RG9/1172 folio 6 page 6

Framlingham Road, Earl Soham

Fanny GARNHAM, dau, 6, scholar, Suffolk Earl Soham

Her mother is a widow, and therefore head of the household. Maria, aged 40, a bad job and try 1861 census.

Fanny Garnham born 1855 +/- 5years in Suffolk. Bingo.



RG9/1172 folio 6 page 6

Framlingham Road, Earl Soham

Fanny GARNHAM, dau, 6, scholar, Suffolk Earl Soham

Her mother is a widow, and therefore head of the household. Maria, aged 40, born Brandeston Suffolk.

Fanny’s siblings are William 14, George 12, and Maria 10.

Born Cretingham Suffolk, Wivenhoe Essex and Earl Soham respectively.

Also in the household is Thomas, grandson of Maria, age possibly 19, ag lab, born Earl Soham.



More……

[Pam Downes]

more....
(Hope you can follow the previous message. I tried to get rid of the duplication, but only made it worse!)
The temptation is now to go to the 1851 census, find Maria's husband and say that he is Fanny's father. Resist. (I quote from my own family. George born 1873 to Rebecca, my great grandmother. Unfortunately George Rebecca's husband had died in 1869, so no way was he George's father.)
You need to see if you can find Fanny's birth registration.
I tried FreeBMD and searched 1850 to 1859 in Suffolk. There is one registered in June quarter 1853 in Plomesgate reg district. If you click on Plomesgate and follow the links through, you find a list of the towns and villages in that district and one of the places is Earl Soham. The only problem is that the year doesn't precisely fit so is this different Fanny, who subsequently died before another was born in 1855?
If you haven't got an Ancestry sub, log on to dot co.uk. Click on 'find yourself', then select 'search the complete images'. You have to register with an email address but that's all (no credit cards details). You can then search the GRO Index.
Search for births and deaths.
The family were living in Framlingham Road Earl Soham in 1851, so I think you should be fairly safe in assuming that Fanny would be registered in Plomesgate reg district.
I will probably think of more to add ( :eek: does this woman never stop??!!!!!) but for now it's bedtime again.
Pam

[terrij]

Hi Pam
I don't know how you are able to find so much so quickly. Thank you for your time and effort.
I have been searching for hours and haven't got far.I did find a scan of Fanny's birth registration on freebmd . June 1853 sheet no 294. Only info was Plomesgate. I don't know where you found the Earl Soham address.
I did find family household of Gilder family in Ipswich 1881 census on familysearch.org. I am certain that this is the correct starting point.
Tried Ancestry Wouldn't let me open anything unless I subscribed.I have used up my free trial and don't know if I would find anything if I did.
I live in the country and only have dial-up internet.Apart from being painfully slow,everyone thinks I have dropped off the planet as they can't contact me.
Oh well you get that.
bye
Terri