Referrer Checking

[Peter Goodey]

Does anyone understand referrer checking?

As I understand it, if you click a link in a webpage, the URL of that webpage is passed across to the target URL. It can be used to verify that you've arrived at a webpage via an approved route. This behaviour can be blocked by a firewall.

FreeBMD for example uses this to check that you're not using some sort of data harvesting software.

I'm trying to access another site that uses referrer checking.

My question is - assuming no firewall intervention (mine's OK), if the link you click forces the target webpage to open in a new window, will referrer checking still work?

I'm using IE6.

[Peter Goodey]

I ought to be specific. Here's the code...

<a target="_blank" href="http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/lclogin">
Oxford English Dictionary
</a>

[Neil Wilson]

Hi Peter
It should track ok, I have checked it out on my web site links page (the links open in a new window as you are inquiring about). The referral part of my stats picked it up, saying I was using ISP etc in Blackpool (actually I am in Nottingham but I checked my other referral data that said Blackpool as well).
give it a try
Neil

[Mythology]

To say that I understand referrer checking would be a gross exaggeration, but ...

As well as my main site, I have a number of small sites scattered around in the free web space of various ISPs who offer a limited amount on a no subscription dial-up account. One of these has a link to the main site. It's not coded to force a new window, but if I right-click to voluntarily open it in a new window, then look at the latest visitor stats on the main site, it does show the URL that I came from as the referrer.

Not sure if that helps!

[Peter Goodey]

Actually it's not really my problem. You're also making me think that I'm asking the wrong question. It's Kent County Council's problem (I think). I'm trying to access the Oxford English Dictionary. Here are two web pages which may demonstrate the problem or may prove that I'm the one with a problem.

http://tinyurl.com/rt9hg

http://tinyurl.com/lc39l

Click on the OED link and one of these opens the OED sign-on screen in the same window.

The other (Kent) opens a subtly different OED screen an a new window - this time without the actual box for entering the library card number!

Perhaps you wouldn't mind checking yourselves? The more the merrier - preferably with a selection of browsers. As I mentioned, I use IE6.

[Mythology]

Tested the OED link on both sites, the Oxfordshire one and the Kent one, in the following browsers:

Firefox 1.5.0.1
Netscape 6.2.3
Netscape 8.0.2 (Canadian version - don't ask!)
Opera 6.01
Opera 8.54

In all cases, I get the proper sign-in screen with the box to enter your library card number.

Internet Explorer. My version is crippled, seems to have decided to revert to version 3.00.0000.0000, however ...
On the Oxfordshire site, the link opens in the same window instead of in a new window - but I still get the proper sign-in screen.
On the Kent site, the link refuses to work at all, so there is something different about them, but if I copy and paste the link location into the address box then hit the enter key, I still arrive at the proper sign-in screen, not a dud one with no box for the card number.

Sorry, but it all works for me!

[Mythology]

Re my Internet Explorer comment, "On the Oxfordshire site, the link opens in the same window instead of in a new window"

Yes, of course it does, you stupid boy - it does in the other browsers too, it's only the Kent site that opens a new window, and my crippled version of IE does not recognize the existence of these, that's all.

[Peter Goodey]

Thanks, Mythology.

So it looks like something at my end. Armed with this new information, I'll approach Kent CC again when they open. I'll also have another look at the firewall (Zone Alarm) and see if there's anything I can tinker with.

In the meantime, if anyone has any theories...

PS Yes I am still kicking myself for not asking the right question in the first place. :o

[Mythology]

"So it looks like something at my end."

It looks that way, Peter - it would be handy if someone who has IE6 could check it, just in case it's one of those things that's been affected by Microsoft's attempts to improve security in SP2, but I *think* the problems with that are all related to file uploads and, as it's still the most widely used browser, I suspect that if it was an IE6 problem, KCC would have earache by now and would have amended whatever was necessary.

[busyglen]

Peter, I have IE6 and tried both of those OED links, and have the same result as you. I cannot get past that screen. I tried several of the other links ie. Britannica Online, and Oxford Dictionary of Nat. Biography, and they take me to the Library Card sign ons. So....not sure whether it is an IE problem, or KCC.

Glenys

[Mythology]

Ooh!

Perhaps it is IE6 related after all then.
If I remember rightly, you use Norton, Glenys, and Peter's using Zone Alarm, so bar a coincidence of overzealous settings, it doesn't sound like a firewall problem.

[Mythology]

"bar a coincidence of overzealous settings, it doesn't sound like a firewall problem."

however ...

I usually use Sygate, but I do have ZoneAlarm too.
So, I switched off Sygate, fired up Zone Alarm, checked for updates as I haven't used it for ages, downloaded the 6.1.744.001 update, installed, rebooted, and ...

Using my normal browser, Firefox, had another bash.
The Oxfordshire site is fine, but the Kent one now gives me the dud screen that has no box for the library card number, telling me instead that I should contact my library administrator for more information about blah, blah, blah ...

I haven't tried *all* the other browsers, but I fired up Opera 8.54, as that's bang up to date, and I get the same with that.

[Peter Goodey]

Thanks for checking, Glenys. I've been diverted by other things and haven't phoned them yet.

I've even tried turning the firewall off but it makes no difference.

You're in Kent too, Glenys. Perhaps you have an interest? Actually, if you have an urgent need to access the OED, it's quite easy to do so via the other site I mentioned. You just have to have your Kent library card number to hand and use a little imagination.

I'll have some lunch now and then tackle them again.

[Mythology]

I think we probably posted together, Peter, so you may have missed my ZoneAlarm experiment, but ...

"I've even tried turning the firewall off but it makes no difference."

If I turn off ZoneAlarm, so I'm temporarily running with no firewall, the Kent site works again for me.

:confused:

[Peter Goodey]

Thanks Mythology.


I'm baffled. I'll phone them now and see if they've remembered the fix that the guy said he thought someone had once come up with.

[busyglen]

Thanks for checking, Glenys. I've been diverted by other things and haven't phoned them yet.

I've even tried turning the firewall off but it makes no difference.

You're in Kent too, Glenys. Perhaps you have an interest? Actually, if you have an urgent need to access the OED, it's quite easy to do so via the other site I mentioned. You just have to have your Kent library card number to hand and use a little imagination.

I'll have some lunch now and then tackle them again.

Thanks Peter, I recently found out that I could access the OED via my library card, from a posting by someone else on the forum, which I thought was great. I hadn't as yet had chance to do that, hence I didn't have an immediate answer for you.

I shall be interested to hear how you get on.

Glenys

[busyglen]

Ooh!

Perhaps it is IE6 related after all then.
If I remember rightly, you use Norton, Glenys, and Peter's using Zone Alarm, so bar a coincidence of overzealous settings, it doesn't sound like a firewall problem.

Yes Myth, you are correct, I do use Norton. So....could be IE6 after all. I will be interested to hear the outcome.

Glenys

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Oh dear ...... now this will put the cat amongst the pigeons! :cool:
Quote from Peter:

Click on the OED link and one of these opens the OED sign-on screen in the same window.

The other (Kent) opens a subtly different OED screen an a new window - this time without the actual box for entering the library card number!

I tried just now and the result was exactly the same as yours for the first link. However, although the second link did open in a new window, the box for entering the library card number is there for me.

This is what I have:

XP Pro Edition, IE6 and Sygate Firewall. I hope you can manage to sort out the problem. Myth knows that I'm not too good with computer problems etc. but he may be able to come up with an answer now?

[Mythology]

Nope - I'm as baffled as Peter is, Diane.

You use IE6 and don't have a problem - therefore, the fact that I'm using other browsers seems to be nothing to do with it, it's not an IE6 problem.

You and I both use Sygate and don't have a problem. Peter uses ZoneAlarm, Glenys uses Norton, and they both have a problem. Sygate, of course, hasn't been updated since the company was bought out, ZA & Norton probably have some new extra security stuff in, so it wouldn't surprise me if that was the answer, and the fact that when I used ZA instead of Sygate I immediately had the same problem as Peter and Glenys suggested that this was so, except for one thing.

Peter *still* gets the problem when he turns ZA off!

If I use ZA and then turn it off, just by the normal method of right-clicking and selecting "Shutdown Zone Alarm", nothing clever like going through processes and killing things, the problem goes away, so it's not because of bits of ZA still running when it's theoretically shut down.

But the good news (I hope) is ...

I think KCC have fixed it.

In the course of typing this, I just went back there to check if the URL of the sign-in page and the URL of the dud page were exactly the same, thinking that if it was one of these clever pages that tries to detect what's what, serves up different versions and gets it wrong, like the stupid bit of Gloucester Record Office's site that tells me I don't have Javascript enabled, I'd ask Peter if he'd cleared his browser cache before trying with the firewall off.
I'm running ZA, knowing that otherwise I wouldn't get the dud screen which, on this occasion, I *wanted*, and I'm now getting the proper sign-in page on the link from the Kent site, so something's certainly changed.

[Peter Goodey]

This is a mystery.

There's no change from my end. I've tried a double clearance of the cache (using both Zone Alarm and IE to do it) and then closing Zone Alarm but no change.

Kent CC are "getting back to me" (in my dreams, probably).

[Mythology]

Aaaarghhh!

This is really crazy - running ZA, I now get the dud page again too!

Off out shortly, so I'll keep this short, but I will just have a grump before I go.

I wish people would stop trying to dictate to the user whether or not something opens in a new window anyway. There are some sites where I *want* a new window - but the right-click option is disabled so I can't have it that way. There are other sites which *force* a new window when I don't want one.

There are people who get confused by having lots of windows open, there are people who prefer having everything in new windows, there are people like me who sometimes want one and sometimes the other - this should be the user's choice!

Mr Web Designer - what makes *you* think that *you* know what is best for *me*? Stop trying to show off how clever you are - we are not impressed!

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Aaargh! |banghead| What's happened this morning???? I've just read your two messages boys, so I thought I'd click both links again.

Same results for both links, when I click on OED:

Page cannot be displayed! |computer|

[busyglen]

I've been having a look around and Googled to see what pages came up. If you go here, it gives dates and participating Libraries. Kent should have been up and running from 1st April.

http://www.oup.com/online/englishpubliclibraries/libraries/

It looks like it's nothing to do with our pc's but a problem that Kent has, and they haven't resolved the issue.

Glenys