Unconsecrated Ground

[katenichols]

Hi , Do any of you have any idea why aperson would be buried in unconsecrated ground?
My Grandmother is burieed in Wealdstone Cemetery, in according to the map of it, unconsecrated ground. She died in 1948, of Pulmonary TB, the family wasnt very wealthy, but I didnt think this would matter?

Any hints gratefully recieved

ta
Kate

[Peter Goodey]

Basically I think simply because she wasn't a member of the Church of England. It's just the way the local authority has divided the cemetery.

If it's important to you, it doesn't preclude the possibility that a minister or priest of another denomination or religion has done whatever might be appropriate to consecrate the site of the grave in the unconsecrated section.

[coenmfam]

My wife's grandmother had twins
the boy was stillborn and had to be buried in unconsecrated ground
as he was not christened
the girl only lived a day, we believe was christened, and was eligible to be buried in consecrated ground
this caused a fair bit of friction apparently
and my wife's grandmother insisted the two be buried together, so they were both buried in unconsecrated ground.
My wife thinks that the graves are also unmarked.

My wife feels quite sad about it
she querried her mum who replied
"They were buried in the corner of the cemetery somewhere
in an unmarked grave ....."

Nev

[katenichols]

Thanks for the info, i thought it was probably that, mum is off to question family on it this weekend.

Nev, that is so sad, would the church not have a record of where in churchyard perhaps? If not a churchyard then the local records office for the area will have burial records for any cemetery usualy.
Hope I have may this clear enough. Thanks Kate

[Mythology]

"would the church not have a record of where in churchyard"

What church? It is a cemetery not a churchyard.
It is run by the local council, and there is no reason to suppose that any church would have had anything to do with the burial at all.
The fact that she was buried in unconsecrated ground suggests that this was so. The normal procedure where the church is involved is to hold a funeral service, after which the vicar (or whoever) from the church attends the actual burial as well, and the person is buried in the section of the cemetery that has been consecrated.

Edit:
Or are you talking about Nev's case, in which case ignore that lot!

[Peter Goodey]

1. I wasn't sure about Kate's message either.

2. The way I understand it is that the consecrated section of an English local authority cemetery is consecrated by the Church of England and is reserved for Church of England burials only. The unconsecrated section is for all other denominations or religions or non-religous burials. As I tried to emphasise before, the burial plot in the 'unconsecrated' section may be 'consecrated' according to the rites of the particular denomination or religion involved - if the concept of consecrated ground is important to them.

[Mythology]

Yes, agreed, Peter, sloppy wording by me - for "church" in mine read "Anglican church". I was basically trying to emphasise that it isn't a churchyard, it's a municipal cemetery - apologies for carelessness.
(But, as refelected by the edit, I may have got the wrong end of the stick anyway!)

[Peter Goodey]

OK Mythology. Now that I've had a good dose of caffeine I realise that's what you meant.

[tiggerbrat]

How would I get photo of his gravesite or more details I am in Australia
He was buried on 6 February 1942 at the Wealdstone Cemetery, Plot F-4518. Henry George PRATT

[Guy Etchells]

Let me clear up a common mis-conception before dealing with the question in hand.

There is nothing to stop unbaptised babies, infants, children or adults being buried in consecrated ground.
Over the years thousands of bodies of unbaptised people were buried in Church of England churchyards let alone cemeteries.
Do not forget every person who lives in a parish has the undisputed right to be buried in the churchyard (if it is still open to burials), no matter who they are or what, if anything they believe.

Cemeteries are divided into two sections.
Consecrated: This section is consecrated on opening and is mainly used for Church of England burials.
Un-consecrated: This section the individual plots are consecrated shortly before each burial (if the particular faith requires) and is mainly used for faiths (and non-believers) other than Church of England burials.
Cheers
Guy

[Pam Downes]

How would I get photo of his gravesite or more details I am in Australia
He was buried on 6 February 1942 at the Wealdstone Cemetery, Plot F-4518. Henry George PRATT
Hi Tiggerbrat,
Wealdstone Cemetery comes under Harrow Council, who seem to be particularly unhelpful in communication compared to some others. :)
http://www.harrow.gov.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=485&pageNumber=1
Apart from having no offices nor members of staff (with a couple of exceptions) at any of the cemeteries under its wing, the website gives you the run-around too. |banghead|
Because so many people are now asking about the graves of their ancestors, many councils are making a charge for look-ups. Unless you already know, I think your first action might be to simply send an email quoting the name, date of burial and plot number and ask if they could tell you if there was a headstone or other memorial placed on the grave. Say that you live in Australia and are therefore unable to visit either their office or the grave at the present moment :) and say please very nicely.
If you get an equally nice reply back :), you will at least know whether there is a headstone, or perhaps a vase, though either may have suffered the ravages of time and be in a pretty sorry state.
From what I can find from googling, burials are no longer taking place at Wealdstone, and the cemetery is now classed as an Historic Green Space.
http://www.londongardenstrust.org/inventory/sitelist.htm#W
so a lot of it may have been allowed to 'return to nature'. It might be worth a PM to Kate the originator of this thread to ask if she's ever been to the cemetery.
Pam

[SeaCopRimmer]

Here in Southport our local Crematorium hold the details of all the non-church cemeteries and are helpful in giving information about grave sites and details of those contained in a particular grave. Also, the Cemetery/Crematorium in Barrow-in-Furness is also very helpful so it's always worth a try contacting them - as said before though some of them are getting a bit 'anti' family historians but unfortunately it's the only route for some of us:confused:

[Tony Tunstall]

In the Catholic church one reason for being buried in such was a suicide, I should imagine that would be covered by the Anglican church. Another reason would be if a person was known to have dealt in witchcraft or any such activities.

[Cassandra]

I understood that unconsecrated ground was also used for people who had committed suidide.

But the other question regarding stillborn children it was the practice that they were buried within the coffins of people (not related) who had died around the same time. My own sister was one of those, Because they hadn't taken a breath they were not deamed to have ever lived.



Cassandra

[v.wells]

Let me clear up a common mis-conception before dealing with the question in hand.

There is nothing to stop unbaptised babies, infants, children or adults being buried in consecrated ground.
Over the years thousands of bodies of unbaptised people were buried in Church of England churchyards let alone cemeteries.
Do not forget every person who lives in a parish has the undisputed right to be buried in the churchyard (if it is still open to burials), no matter who they are or what, if anything they believe.

Cemeteries are divided into two sections.
Consecrated: This section is consecrated on opening and is mainly used for Church of England burials.
Un-consecrated: This section the individual plots are consecrated shortly before each burial (if the particular faith requires) and is mainly used for faiths (and non-believers) other than Church of England burials.
Cheers
Guy

Thanks Gury for your explanation. My gg grandfather was buried in unconsecrated ground in Brent Cemetery by a Roman Catholic priest as that was his failth.

[Waitabit]

But isn't it great that GOD takes his own whether some 'earthly chap' blessed the ground or not?

At least, I like to think so.

[Summer]

My GX4 Grandfather died at Tynemouth Union Workhouse and was buried in "unconsecrated ground" in Preston cemetery - I assumed this meant the ground was not blessed by clergy of any discription, so have found the answers here interesting. When I contacted the Nth Tyneside Council for further details, they said the grave was not purchased, had no headstone and had another chappy in there as well after George was buried. So maybe $$ is a big factor as to where you "end up"?? I agree with Waitabit, and you'll reap what you sow down here!!!

[Peter Goodey]

I assumed this meant the ground was not blessed by clergy of any discription

No. It refers to consecration by the established church.

[Summer]

No. It refers to consecration by the established church.

Hence the past tense - I have been educated in this thread! :)

[Tony Tunstall]

Whatever is intended when a person is buried in unconsecrated ground is carried in the fact that they are in unconsecrated ground. What it means decades and centuries later to those of us looking for our forebears is that we are presented with a mystery. Most people think that all these burials carry some sort of stigma which I can't reconcile with reality as we know it in the 21st century. After all those fighting men who fell in some God forsaken and now forgotten land were hardly in consecrated ground and yet the site is revered in their memory. I think that this device was a ploy used by the church as a threat to those living in order to keep them in line.

[Tony Tunstall]

Of course many of the soldiers who fell and were found later were buried and rightly so but some remains are still being recovered today and because of the sheer numbers of lives lost will continue to surface long after we're gone. My point is that unconsecrated ground now are just words. God didn't make us in his own image to condemn us that would seem such a waste.