Royal Navy ship MIRANDA

[DebbieAnn]

I have an entry that a relative of mine was on a Royal Navy vessel called MIRANDA that docked in Melbourne. Would that have been Melbourne, Australia, or is there another Melbourne location? How can I trace the movements of a Naval ship? The date was November, 1882.

Debbie

[DebbieAnn]

OK, have tracked warship MIRANDA to South Seas, so must have been Melbourne, Australia. My great uncle, Arthur Albert Ray, deserted from the Miranda in Melbourne in November, 1882, where he served as Signalman 2nd class, after serving 28 days in gaol for insubordination. I have no information on him after this. How do I go about trying to find him in Australia? Are there indexes I should search for marriage or death records?

Debbie

[Geoffers]

How can I trace the movements of a Naval ship? The date was November, 1882.
Paul Benyon's site has a brief note on Miranda
http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/18-1900/M/03060.html

Tracing a ship is most easily done using the 'Navy List'

Does the Service Record have an indication of punishment (i.e. does it indicate he was caught?)

Geoffers

[DebbieAnn]

Geoffers,

There is no record of his being caught, only that if he was he was to be returned to Br 24 and tried for desertion. The Miranda was his 4th ship in 4 years, and all his ratings ranged from 'exclt' to 'v good' until he got on this ship, then his next 2 ratings tanked, to 'fair'. He was put in the brig for insubordination, so I figure there was a real personality conflict there, somewhere. His commander was Burgess Watson, as far as I can find.

I doubt he would have returned to England (and I can't find him there), which leaves either staying in the South Seas somewhere or leaving for parts unknown, possibly working passage on a freighter. He would have been just under 19 at this time (he lied about his age to join up) and hardened by ship-board life. Or he could have been just some John Doe killed in a bar fight somewhere - I have no clue.

If he was caught and tried, where would I find the record of proceedings? Would he have been hung or simply jailed?

Assuming he stayed in Australia, where would I start looking?

Debbie

[Geoffers]

If he was caught and tried, where would I find the record of proceedings?
If he was caught, there should be mention of conviction in the service record which you have downloaded

Records of Court Martial are held by The National Archives

To find which records cover a particular date, use the Catalgoue
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/search.asp
enter 'Court Martial' in the Word or Phrase field. Limit the dates to the period of interest. In the department or series code, enter ADM1

continued.......

[Geoffers]

part 2.....

Assuming he stayed in Australia, where would I start looking?
Heaven knows - he could have used an alias - he may not have gone to (or stayed in) Oz. There are not too many problems in genealogy for which there isn't at least some way to suggest a means of moving research forward, but this comes pretty close.

If he changed both forename and surname, you're really stuck - and what alias might he use?? It could be anything.

If he didn't change both names, he may have stayed abroad or come home. If you can find a 1901 census index that will allow you use this search, try entering his first name, age +/- 5years and enter a birthplace. This will however be no good if looking for someone born in a large town. There will have bene loads of Arthurs born in London, or Manchester, etc.

Try looking for a will for his father and see if the miscreant son is mentioned.

Geoffers

[DebbieAnn]

His father died in 1881. The mother raised the children, never re-marrying, and there is no sign of Arthur from 1882 on. There is one other problem child in the family - his brother (my grandfather) Alexander. I can't find him in the 1901 census, when he would have been 20 years old. The story in the family was that he (Alexander) joined the Black Watch and went to India, where he was erroneously arrested for the murder of a native and thrown in jail, his alibi having left on a Royal Navy ship. Six months later, when the ship returned, his alibi was heard and Alexander was released from jail. He then left the Service and went to Canada, then on to the States, where he ended up marrying my grandmother. I have never found any proof of this story - not his service in any military outfit nor his arrest. Alexander made up a story about his name being Al Tsar Ray, and it was always believed to be truth (he said his father was a ship captain, and that he was born on board a merchant ship in a Russian port, hence his name) but his father was a shoemaker in London as I came to find out. Alexander's second wife always called him Albert (my grandmother having died in the 1918 flu epidemic), though he told the family his name was just 'Al' not Albert or even Alexander.

I'm beginning to wonder if Arthur Albert took his brother's name and is the one who is my grandfather...

I need to find traces of them both at the same time after 1882, and that's just what I can't find... The 1891 census shows Alexander living with one brother and his mother, but I can't find Arthur, and the 1901 census shows neither... 'Al' married my grandmother in 1911...

Debbie

[Geoffers]

his brother (my grandfather) Alexander. I can't find him in the 1901 census, when he would have been 20 years old. The story in the family was that he (Alexander) joined the Black Watch and went to India, where he was erroneously arrested for the murder of a native and thrown in jailBy 'eck, your lot lived for adventure, didn't they? Does this run in the family????

Have you been able to locate a service record for this chap at TNA?

Geoffers

[DebbieAnn]

"Does this run in the family????"

Yes. My father was in the US Army, and went AWOL to go after his best friend who had stolen his brand new car. He returned after finding his car totalled and his best friend in the hospital, and was jailed. His first wife divorced him while he was serving his time. She ran off with the best friend. After being released, he met and married my mother.

My oldest son disobeyed a direct order while in the US Air Force. Turned out it was an illegal order. They both agreed he should be given a General Discharge, and released from his service.

Seems my lot have minds of their own... :D

Debbie

[haylierose]

i don't know if this will help you message=i don't know if this will help you at all but victoria state libary and most state libarys hold books on ship deserat all but victoria state libary and most state libarys hold books on ship deserters in australia my ggg grand dada left a ship here in oz and there are people from other countries in them to . just search for the victorian state libary in google and ring them they will tell you who has what infromation and where to find it.

[ChristineR]

Just making a note here that in another thread Procat has found Athur Albert Ray in Victoria, Australia - his marriage, death and children. Needless to say DebbieAnn was pretty happy when the marriage certificate confirmed he was the right bloke!

ChristineR