Back to the brick wall-Look up req.

[r-careys]

Could I please request an 1841 and 1851 census look up for Samuel Collins b circa 1827 Stockland.
Parents believed to be Thomas and Elizabeth

Many Thanks
Russell

[DebbieAnn]

At a quick glance I can't find him in 1851 (no access to 1841). Do you know who and when he married?

Debbie

[Burrow Digger]

Have checked the 1841 but cant find any 14 year old that fits.

There is NO parish called Stockland.

Can you please indicate what parish you think he and his family MIGHT be living in, in 1841. 1841 does not indicate place of birth - only if they were born in the county or not.

Burrow Digger

[Wirral]

Stockland does exist - it is about 5 miles north-east of Honiton. I can't find a Samuel Collins born there although there are lots of other Collins listed in 1851/1861. In the 1851 census there is a Samuel living as a lodger, age 22, cordwainer journeyman, in Orpington, Kent, who was born in Membury, Devon, which is about 3 miles from Stockland.

[Jo Simpsons]

Genuki says that Stockland and with its adjoining parachial chapelry of Dalwood, formed a detached member of Dorsetshire till 1842 when it was added to Devon by act of Parliment.

Jo :)

[Jo Simpsons]

|laugh1| |laugh1| Beat me to it Wirral!

Jo :)

[Jo Simpsons]

I don't know how far off track this is, but a try. Have you got his marriage certificate to confirm fathers name or occupation? That would help.

in 1841 census
HO107-0294 Folio 3/39 page 31
South Street Bridport
James Collins, 51, B smith, yes
Elizabeth, 53, no
Martha, 20, no
James, 17, no
Edmond, 15, no
Samuel, 12, no
Robert, 8, no
Jo:)

[Wirral]

Now you have beaten me!

1851 census HO107/1860 folio 199 page 12 Birdsmoryat [?] Broadwindsor, Dorset
James Collins head M 59 Journeyman smith, Devon Stockland
Elizabeth Collins wife M 61, Devon Membury
Robert Collins son U 17 journeyman carpenter, Somerset Chard

[Burrow Digger]

Genuki says that Stockland and with its adjoining parachial chapelry of Dalwood, formed a detached member of Dorsetshire till 1842 when it was added to Devon by act of Parliment.
Jo :)


I think the original poster should have known to be looking in Dorset not in Devon.

[Wirral]

I think the original poster should have known to be looking in Dorset not in Devon.All the census records 1851 - 1901 that I can find for "COLLINs born in Stockland" (without specifying any county) say that they were born in Stockland Devon, even those born before the 1842 change. None said they were born in Stockland Dorset, even those who had moved out of the area. So why would Russell suspect that there had been a boundary change?

[r-careys]

At a quick glance I can't find him in 1851 (no access to 1841). Do you know who and when he married?

Debbie

Hi Debbie again thanks for your response all of you forum members are wonderful :)

Samuel's Marriage certificate (1867 in Australia) states that he was born in Stockland, County of Devon England. It also states his age as 40 years and that he was a widdower since December 1860 (the date is not perfectly clear but looks like 1860) The certificate also states he has 4 children living and 2 dead at the time of his marriage.

Does this give any more clues?
I look forward to your reply
Russell

[r-careys]

Have checked the 1841 but cant find any 14 year old that fits.

There is NO parish called Stockland.

Can you please indicate what parish you think he and his family MIGHT be living in, in 1841. 1841 does not indicate place of birth - only if they were born in the county or not.

Burrow Digger

Hello Burrow Digger,
I got Stockland from his marriage certificate. Originally I thought he meant Stock Land like a farm but I have been assured it is Stockland a location and I have since seen Stoickland on the web page.
Please see previous reply to Debbie for all of the information I have other than the original reply.
Thank you for looking.
Russell

[r-careys]

Stockland does exist - it is about 5 miles north-east of Honiton. I can't find a Samuel Collins born there although there are lots of other Collins listed in 1851/1861. In the 1851 census there is a Samuel living as a lodger, age 22, cordwainer journeyman, in Orpington, Kent, who was born in Membury, Devon, which is about 3 miles from Stockland.

This Samuel could be his Cousin...were ther nameing proceedures followed in Devon? He would have been born C1829 whilst My Samuel would have born C 1827.
Or maybe the rounding makes it look like a different person
On the Marriage certificate his profession looks a bit hard to read ( Sa......yer) could be sawyer don't know.

Russell :)

[r-careys]

|laugh1| |laugh1| Beat me to it Wirral!

Jo :)

Thank you too Jo
:)

[r-careys]

I don't know how far off track this is, but a try. Have you got his marriage certificate to confirm fathers name or occupation? That would help.

in 1841 census
HO107-0294 Folio 3/39 page 31
South Street Bridport
James Collins, 51, B smith, yes
Elizabeth, 53, no
Martha, 20, no
James, 17, no
Edmond, 15, no
Samuel, 12, no
Robert, 8, no
Jo:)


Jo, the marriage certificate gives Father as Thomas Collins and Mother as Elizabeth Porter or Potter, looks more like Porter, and father as a farmer. Thats why I originally thought it was Stock land like a farm.:)

[r-careys]

With the additional information can anyone find him?
What about his first wife and children any sign of them at all? |banghead|
Russell

[r-careys]

Experts please: Could what I am reading as thomas on Samuel's marriage certificate be actually James?
Could I email the certificate to someone for confirmation ?


Russell |blush|

[DebbieAnn]

There is a marriage for a Samuel Collins in Honiton, Mar qtr 1847 (vol 10 pg 181) to possibly Emma Tucker - you will have to sent for the certificate to be sure.

Then there is a death for Emma Kate Collins in Plymouth, Dec qtr 1860 (vol 5b pg 163).

The place for the marriage makes sense, as does the time of death in the county of Devon. But you'd still need the certificates to be sure.

Debbie

[r-careys]

There is a marriage for a Samuel Collins in Honiton, Mar qtr 1847 (vol 10 pg 181) to possibly Emma Tucker - you will have to sent for the certificate to be sure.

Then there is a death for Emma Kate Collins in Plymouth, Dec qtr 1860 (vol 5b pg 163).

The place for the marriage makes sense, as does the time of death in the county of Devon. But you'd still need the certificates to be sure.

Debbie


That sounds good Debbie :)

Is there any indication of the 6 children 4 living 2 dead??

Regards
Russell

[DebbieAnn]

They could have been born anywhere in Devon - your best bet is to verify the marriage and death and then look for them in the 1851 census - it is likely there are transcription errors, as Samuel's name doesn't seem to 'pop out' so having 2 first names to search on would increase the odds of finding them.

Debbie

[DebbieAnn]

Stockland is part of Axminster, Devon from 1844 on.

There is a birth for Job Collins in Axminster in Sep qtr 1848 (vol 10 pg 7) and his death in Axminster in Mar qtr 1849 (vol 10 pg 5). You could send for either certificate, stipulating that Samuel be the father.

Debbie

[r-careys]

thanks again Debbie
Where / How do you get devon certificates?
Can I get them on the web if so do you have the link
I would like to try the death and or marriage, do you think marriage would be best?
Russell

[DebbieAnn]

Use this link (that's the one I use):

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

You can order and pay on-line and they mail them to you - very reliable. Go for the marriage first, then let us know if it's the right Samuel and who he married. If it was Emma, then get the death certificate. If not, I'll look some more, or you can send for Job's birth certificate to verify parents names, stipulating in the order that father was Samuel.

Debbie

[r-careys]

Use this link (that's the one I use):

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

You can order and pay on-line and they mail them to you - very reliable. Go for the marriage first, then let us know if it's the right Samuel and who he married. If it was Emma, then get the death certificate. If not, I'll look some more, or you can send for Job's birth certificate to verify parents names, stipulating in the order that father was Samuel.

Debbie
Thank you
Do you also have a good link for a Devon map? Not Multi Map, I find that too hard to get perspective.

I'm off to get the certificate now.

Russell

[r-careys]

Ordered :)


Russell

[AnnB]

Do you also have a good link for a Devon map? Not Multi Map, I find that too hard to get perspective.

Take a look at Archive CD Books (http://www.parishchest.com/en-gb/dept_3545.html)you should find the perfect CD :)
Best wishes
Ann

[Jo Simpsons]

There is in the 1851 census, using the information Debbie said for a possible marriage.
HO107/1862 Folio 267 Page 28
Axminster
Samuel Collins, head, 46, Farm Labourer, Membury, Devon
Emma, wife, 26, Aubery St Mary, Devon
Mary Ann, daur, 3, Musbery, Devon
William, son, 1, Axminster, Devon

:)

[Jo Simpsons]

I was just thinking have you got Samuel and his children going to Australia? If you had that passenger list you would be able to search for the childrens names too.

Jo:)

[r-careys]

I was just thinking have you got Samuel and his children going to Australia? If you had that passenger list you would be able to search for the childrens names too.

Jo:)

Jo, and Others,
Following your recomendations Jo,
I searched the deaths here for Collins for 1866 (not 1860 as I originally thought)
I came up with Emma Collins death in Avoca .
Emma Collins ne Barlow
Father Peter Barlow
Mother Elizabeth Unknown
Age 39
Place of birth CHES (our records use abreviations for place of birth) could be Chester or some other place who knows. Is Chester near Devon? I'll have to get a map
This (Avoca) is the same locality where Samuel was married in 1867.
I then searched for births and deaths for Collins father Samuel mother Emma. I was looking for 4 births and 2 deaths as stated on the marriage certificate.
I found :
Frances Elizabeth 1860
Moses 1861
Abraham 1862
All in the same region of Avoca where he was later married.

I then searched the shipping records, (I getting good at this) and I found a possible:
Unassisted Immigration to Victoria
Index of Inward Passenger Lists for British, Foreign and New Zealand Ports 1852-1923

4 results found.
Family Name First Name Age Month Year Ship Port Fiche Page
COLLINS CHAS I APR 1855 GIPSY QUEEN B 092 003
COLLINS EMMA 30 APR 1855 GIPSY QUEEN B 092 003
COLLINS KATE 3 APR 1855 GIPSY QUEEN B 092 003
COLLINS SAML 29 APR 1855 GIPSY QUEEN B 092 003
Thats only one child still missing could have died back in Devon or even on board ship.

I will now need to spend some time and put all the information together and re asses the situation. It looks like the certificate I ordered is the wrong one for it was with Emma Tucker. I suppose there is always a possibility she was married before. Do not like my chances with that though.

Would anyone be able to find marriage to Emma Barlow??
;)

[DebbieAnn]

Only one I see is Emma Barlow to possibly John Collins in Altrincham, Cheshire in Mar qtr 1862 (vol 8a pg 179). Could this be the Emma Collins' death you found?

Debbie

[r-careys]

Well that could be Debie. Im confused again.
I had better wait and see what turns up with the wedding certificate.
It may be the one after all
:(


Russell

[r-careys]

Only one I see is Emma Barlow to possibly John Collins in Altrincham, Cheshire in Mar qtr 1862 (vol 8a pg 179). Could this be the Emma Collins' death you found?

Debbie

This Emma Collins I believe arrived in 1855 with Samuel Collins as man and wife they then had other children here before Emma's death in 1866.
Then Samuel married Hanna Elizabeth Splatt in 1867

Russell

[Clive Blackaby]

Thank you
Do you also have a good link for a Devon map? Not Multi Map, I find that too hard to get perspective.

I'm off to get the certificate now.

Russell
Have you tried Google Maps? Not sure whether you get the same on Google as we do here. This even gives you aerial photos

http://maps.google.co.uk/

[r-careys]

Have you tried Google Maps? Not sure whether you get the same on Google as we do here. This even gives you aerial photos

http://maps.google.co.uk/

Thanks Clive : I will try it now

Russell

[r-careys]

Ordered :)


Russell

Any idea how long they take to send out the certificates its been over 2 weeks now.

Russell

[r-careys]

Could I ask for a lookup please in 1851 census
Peter Barlow and wife Elizabeth
I think Peter would have been born about 1800
may or may not have Emma living at home aged 24

Many thanks
Russell