Pam Mallinson

[Pammy33]

ROMANY?GIPSY CONNECTIONS ? I am told that my grandmother came from a Romany background, but no one either knows or is alive to confirm this !
Has anyone any experience of tracing such ancestors, or could point me in a particular direction please I have her marriage cert but cannot find her ANYWHERE before this.
All suggestions welcomed.
Many thanks
Pam

[Pam Downes]

Hi Pam,
I couldn't think of the exact URL I wanted so did a google and found some bonus links :)
http://www.spub.co.uk/tgi3/links11e.php
Scroll to bottom of page to 'Gypsies'.
(What I had been originally thinking of was the Romany and Traveller FHS.)
According to the age given on her marriage certificate, would your grandmother have been alive in 1901? If so, what was her maiden name, her age in 1901, and the name and occupation of her father (though I appreciate that his job at the time of the marriage may not have been his job 20 years earlier!)
Pam Downes

[Neil Wilson]

ROMANY?GIPSY CONNECTIONS ? I am told that my grandmother came from a Romany background, but no one either knows or is alive to confirm this !
Has anyone any experience of tracing such ancestors, or could point me in a particular direction please I have her marriage cert but cannot find her ANYWHERE before this.
All suggestions welcomed.
Many thanks
PamHi Pam
I was always under the impression that there was a gipsy connection in my line. Well there wasn't, it was just a story my grandmother told to put off anyone researching the family tree and finding out that they were first cousins. Frown upon in those days.
Neil

[Pammy33]

Yes Neil...it could be just rumour...but I cannot find her anywhere[ancestry/census etc ] SO........its a line worth pursuing. so I have used Pams' link and found anew pathway to explore....isn't it exciting !!?
Regards
Pam

[Pam Downes]

|rant| |rant|
I'd almost finished a message and I've lost the dratted thing.

The person we're looking for is Catherine Stanley. Married Thomas Gascoigne in 1898 in Bradford. Catherine's father is allegedly Isaac and he's a gardener.
I've found a Thomas and Catherine on the 1901 census, living in Shipley, not that far from Bradford.
RG13/4183 folio 70 page 23
85 Briggase, Shipley
Thomas GASCOIGNE, head, married, 27, Dyer's labourer, Yorks Bradford
Catherine, wife, married, 21, Wolverhampton
William H, son, 1, Yorks Shipley
Lilian, daur, 7 months, Yorks Shipley

Pam, do the ages of Thomas and Catherine, or Thomas' job equate with the details on the marriage certificate?
I was going to ask if your father/mother had a brother and sister called William and Lilian, but if they did they probably wouldn't have known about them because there's a death registration for a Lilian Gascoigne aged 1 December quarter 1901 and for a William Henry aged 4 in March quarter 1904. Both in N. Bierley registration district and Shipley is in that district.
Does Shipley/Bradford or a dyer's labourer feature on either your father or mother's birth certificate?
Even if the ages on the census don't agree with the ages on the marriage certificate how do they compare with your grandparents' ages? The Catherine on the census would have been under 21 when she married so would have had to have had parental consent to marry. On the other hand, she wouldn't be the first woman to lie about her age. Nor to give any old name for that of her father.
Pam Downes

[Pammy33]

Thanks Pam for your reply re 1901 census; yes you have the right people and I have this info also....I just cannot get further back with Catherine. I have loads on Thomas G and his ancestors...no probs; but Catherine seems to have appeared from 'nowhere' to marry Thomas. I've heard a rumour in the family that she could have been a gypsy/Romani, hence no one spoke of her background etc. Am now trying the Romani info and there is a Stanley clan. But wether she originates from them I have no idea yet. Tried ALL other census'...to no avail. Neither can I find an Isaac Stanley that fits anywhere near his 'potential' age. As you say Pam... she could have lied about her age and 'who' her father was. Any further ideas ??
I do appreciate your help

Pam








|rant|


|rant|




I'd almost finished a message and I've lost the dratted thing.

The person we're looking for is Catherine Stanley. Married Thomas Gascoigne in 1898 in Bradford. Catherine's father is allegedly Isaac and he's a gardener.
I've found a Thomas and Catherine on the 1901 census, living in Shipley, not that far from Bradford.
RG13/4183 folio 70 page 23
85 Briggase, Shipley
Thomas GASCOIGNE, head, married, 27, Dyer's labourer, Yorks Bradford
Catherine, wife, married, 21, Wolverhampton
William H, son, 1, Yorks Shipley
Lilian, daur, 7 months, Yorks Shipley

Pam, do the ages of Thomas and Catherine, or Thomas' job equate with the details on the marriage certificate?
I was going to ask if your father/mother had a brother and sister called William and Lilian, but if they did they probably wouldn't have known about them because there's a death registration for a Lilian Gascoigne aged 1 December quarter 1901 and for a William Henry aged 4 in March quarter 1904. Both in N. Bierley registration district and Shipley is in th. As you say Pam... she could have lied about her age and 'who' her father was. Any further ideas ??
I do appreciate your help

Pam







[QUOTE=Pam Downes]|rant|


|rant|




I'd almost finished a message and I've lost the dratted thing.

The person we're looking for is Catherine Stanley. Married Thomas Gascoigne in 1898 in Bradford. Catherine's father is allegedly Isaac and he's a gardener.
I've found a Thomas and Catherine on the 1901 census, living in Shipley, not that far from Bradford.
RG13/4183 folio 70 page 23
85 Briggase, Shipley
Thomas GASCOIGNE, head, married, 27, Dyer's labourer, Yorks Bradford
Catherine, wife, married, 21, Wolverhampton
William H, son, 1, Yorks Shipley
Lilian, daur, 7 months, Yorks Shipley

Pam, do the ages of Thomas and Catherine, or Thomas' job equate with the details on the marriage certificate?
I was going to ask if your father/mother had a brother and sister called William and Lilian, but if they did they probably wouldn't have known about them because there's a death registration for a Lilian Gascoigne aged 1 December quarter 1901 and for a William Henry aged 4 in March quarter 1904. Both in N. Bierley registration district and Shipley is in that district.
Does Shipley/Bradford or a dyer's labourer feature on either your father or mother's birth certificate?
Even if the ages on the census don't agree with the ages on the marriage certificate how do they compare with your grandparents' ages? The Catherine on the census would have been under 21 when she married so would have had to have had parental consent to marry. On the other hand, she wouldn't be the first woman to lie about her age. Nor to give any old name for that of her father.
Pam Downes

[Mythology]

"... she wouldn't be the first woman to lie about her age. Nor to give any old name for that of her father."

Nor the first woman to decide that she didn't like her name.

I don't have access to everything at home, so you'll need to check this out thoroughly yourself, I could be on the wrong track, and it will probably be impossible to actually prove anyway, but ...

If she's 21 born Wolves on the 1901, unless you're unlucky, she ought to be there in 1881.
In 1881 there's an Isaac in Wolves with a 2 year-old *Caroline*.

What happened to Caroline? I spotted her in 1891 when I had a quick look at that, couldn't see her 1901 and couldn't see an obvious marriage or death for her.
She could have married out of area, so you'd need to check every possible Caroline Stanley marriage, she could have emigrated, hence the comment that it will probably be impossible to prove, but on the balance of probabilities after my *very* quick prod, I'd reckon that Catherine is probably Caroline in disguise.

[Pammy33]

Thanks for your suggestion re possible change of name ....will keep trying to find her. Also, am now to attend Romany/Traveller FHS Day in Derbyshire next weekend, so hopefully more info / clues will surface ??

Pam

[Neil Wilson]

Also, am now to attend Romany/Traveller FHS Day in Derbyshire next weekend, so hopefully more info / clues will surface ??

PamHi Pam
Where and when is the Romany/Traveller FHS Day?
Cheers
Neil

[Pam Downes]

Hi Pam
Where and when is the Romany/Traveller FHS Day?
Cheers
NeilHi Neil,
http://www.rtfhs.org.uk/
the other Pam (Downes)