Cemetary, Hartland Creek

[jillw]

My 3rd Great Grandfather was buried at the Church of England Cemetary at Hartland Creek, Sydney in 1875. Do any of our Australian forum members know where exactly this cemetary is located and if it is possible to visit it still?

[sadler]

Hello.
The name does not show in any of my cemetery lists, what was
the name of your grandfather.

Mike.

[jillw]

Hi, Thanks for replying. My 3rd G. Grandfather was called George Pincombe. The name of the cemetery was given on the death certificate ( I think Australian certificates are the bee's knees, they give so much information as long as it is known). George was living at 105, Botany Road, Waterloo at the time of his death. Actually, he committed suicide so perhaps Hartland Creek wasn't consecrated ground?

[Lenore]

Hi, Thanks for replying. My 3rd G. Grandfather was called George Pincombe. The name of the cemetery was given on the death certificate ( I think Australian certificates are the bee's knees, they give so much information as long as it is known). George was living at 105, Botany Road, Waterloo at the time of his death. Actually, he committed suicide so perhaps Hartland Creek wasn't consecrated ground?There's no Hartland Creek in Australian Gazetteers. Could you have another look at the writing? In the column where buried, what is the name of the minister, if there is one, or funeral director or witnesses?

Best wishes,

Lenore

[Carol G]

Hi JillW,
I think the cemetery you want is Haslem's Creek. It is now known as Rookwood Cemetery, at Lidcombe,(suburb of) Sydney. I have a lot of rellies there and visited only a few weeks ago. Its the biggest cemetery in the southern hemisphere, and would have been the closest one to Waterloo.
I can ring them for you on Monday (today is Saturday) and see where your relative is, (they are pretty helpful) also next time I go to the library I'll check a fiche they have called "Monumental Inscriptions". It lists, predictably enough, the inscriptions on the headstones-but only if there is one, of course.
I had rellies who lived in the same street-small world hey!
Please write to me as a reminder in a few days, if I have not gotten back to you.
Hope I can find your guy!
Regards
Carol

[Carol G]

If you could provide the date of death, this would enable a look up of the Newspaper obituary. This would provide more information.
Carol

[Carol G]

HI
Sorry, no listing in monumental inscriptions, so either 1. he isn't there (will still check office) 2. no headstone 3. headstone damaged before transcripts were done.

Archive Office of NSW Reel 2923 Registers of Coronial Inquests and Magesterial Inquiries Oct 1870-June 1850 4/6615-6616
Date of Inquest - 10 May 1875
Name - George Pincombe of Waterloo
No 395 before Hy Sheill C
When received May 6th 1875
Result - Felo- de-se by drowning

Newspaper search-----

NO death or funeral notices found in Sydney Morning Herald at the time.

SYDNEY MORNING HERALD 11TH MAY 1875 extract

CORONER’S COURT

FELO-DE-SE

An inquest was held this morning, at Waterloo Retreat, Waterloo, on the body of George Pincombe, who was found drowned in a well on Friday last. </FONT>

Alfred Archer , a labourer, deposed: He knew the deceased, whom he believed was about 60 years of age; deceased was a dairyman, and a native of Devonshire, England; he was in deceased’s employ, and lived with him; deceased had left no family in the Colony, but there is a Step-son of his in Sydney; he last saw deceased alive about 3 O’Clock on Friday afternoon when he went out with the milk; at that time he left deceased and the servant girl, aged about 20 years, at home; he had lived off and on with deceased for the past twelve months and continually within the last six weeks; deceased used to drink occasionally, but was quite sober on last Friday; deceased’s cows were seven in number; his horse and cart and household effects were seized for debt; some of them were sold on the Friday, and the remainder, the cows, were sold on Saturday; there were two bailiffs in possession, viz., one on behalf of Cohen, a money lender, and the other on behalf, of the landlord for rent; the sale of his things on Friday effected him very much, and he commenced to cry and told him (witness) to go away with the milk and serve the customers; about five days before deceased said that he would either drown himself or cut his throat if he did not get over this trouble, and that he was never in such trouble before; on a subsequent day he had heard him make the same remark; he (witness)returned home about a quarter to 7 o’clock on last Friday evening, accompanied by Frederick Hodges, deceased step-son; he first saw the servant girl; she was coming across the yard; she said she was afraid to go in; he did not ask her why; nor did she say why; he then took the light from the cart, went into the house accompanied by Hodges and they went into the two rooms without seeing deceased; thinking of what deceased had said a few days previously, he said to Hodges, “Let us go and look at the well ;” they went there , and on reaching it, he saw deceased’s hat and stick on top of the well, close together; a couple of sticks were got and they searched the well ,and in about a quarter of an hour felt something in it; they lashed a hook onto the stick, and with that caught hold of the something; there were two bailiffs in possession, viz., one on behalf of Cohen, a money lender, and the other on behalf, of the landlord for rent; the sale of his things on Friday effected him very much, and he commenced to cry and told him (witness) to go away with the milk and serve the customers; about five days before deceased said that he would either drown himself or cut his throat if he did not get over this trouble, and that he was never in such trouble before; on a subsequent day he had heard him make the same remark; he (witness)returned home about a quarter to 7 o’clock on last Friday evening, accompanied by Frederick Hodges, deceased step-son; he first saw the servant girl; she was coming across the yard; she said she was afraid to go in; he did not ask her why; nor did she say why; he then took the light from the cart, went into the house accompanied by Hodges and they went into the two rooms without seeing deceased; thinking of what deceased had said a few days previously, he said to Hodges, “Let us go and look at the well ;” they went there , and on reaching it, he saw deceased’s hat and stick on top of the well, close together; a couple of sticks were got and they searched the well ,and in about a quarter of an hour felt something in it; they lashed a hook onto the stick, and with that caught hold of the something at the bottom of the well and brought it to the surface, when he saw it was the body of the deceased; he saw there was no life in him, and fastened the stick so as to keep the body on the surface of the water while Hodges went in his cart and returned with constable Greeham in about seven minutes; the body was then taken out of the well and carried into the house; a man named Cunninghams and the servant girl, besides himself and Hodges, were present when the body was discovered in the well; on Friday there was a sale of the household furniture, horse and cart, and dray; the cows were taken away that day, and he believed were sold on the following day; there was a lid to the well; it was ordinarily kept covered; there was 11 to 12 feet of water in the well; he only said that a bailiff was in on behalf of Mr Cohen, from what the deceased told him; Sarah Wright and John Frederick Hodges gave corroborative evidence.





<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>The jury returned a verdict of

[Carol G]

Seems it did not all fit. The last line is......



The jury returned a verdict of Felo-de-se.



The Anglican Office at Rookwood Cemetery has no computer record of anyone by that surname. Only other suggestion is that perhaps as a pauper he was put in another public section??? Don't know just a thought. Maybe if you put up another post someone who knows more on burial procedures may be able to help.

Carol:)

[jillw]

Wow!, What can I say except thank you very much. I've been on holiday this week so had not seen your posts until today. I had another look at the certificate and you are right, it was Haslems Creek. There are two names in the box for name of minister and witnesses but they are both at the bottom, so I think they must have both been witnesses. I guess given the circumstances of his death a minister would not have officiated. The names of the witnesses were Charles Randall and Mary Abbott. I wonder who they were, I don't think Mary was the servant girl I should think that was Sarah Wright. The date he was buried was 9th May 1875.

I'm a bit confused by the reference to the step-son Frederick Hodges. My George left a wife and children in London and I have found no reference to him having married in Australia. Isn't it always the way that you answer one question, only to throw up a whole new can of worms.

Once again thank you all so very, very much for all the info

Lots of Love

Jill

[Carol G]

Hi Jill
Glad you got the information and find it useful! That's the way it goes, though, solve one mystery, find another.
You could try search at http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/search.htm
for NSW records of a possible marriage and info on the step-son. That only covers NSW, though.
Regards
Good luck.
Carol

[jillw]

Dear Carol,

I don't suppose you would do me one more favour? I feel very cheeky asking after all you have found out for me already, but could you ask the cemetary to check their index for the spelling Pinkham. I know everywhere else the surname is spelt correctly but this mis-spelling often occurs if the name is passed on orally.

Lots of Love,

Jill

[Carol G]

Hi Jill.
No worries, happy to help. To ensure all bases were covered I rang the anglican, catholic and independent sections at Rookwood. None had your George with either spelling. The ANglican section has a John Pincombe in 1911.
They all felt that George would have had a public burial(paid for by the Government), but that he still should be on the database.
The is a book you may be able to get there, as Rookwood is a very significant cemetery, called The Sleeping City by Johnson and Sainty. Next time I go to the library I'll check if it has any info in it about public burials.
Sorry I could not find George for you.

Regards
Carol

[jillw]

Dear Carol,

A big thanks for looking. I'm always hitting brick walls with George, it's almost like he doesn't want to be found! John might belong to some cousins who also emigrated but they don't know anything about my George either. I'll certainly see if that book is available through my library or Amazon.

Lots of Love,

Jill