Helppp!

[Lindad]

We're trying to track down someone who family tradition tells us died in France during WW1. He was born in Ireland in 1876, but by 1900 was living in England. His son's death certificate in 1918 described him as 'The late, Private, Essex Regiment'.

The man we are looking for is Walter Hastings Conbour HUNGERFORD.

His name doesn't appear on the Commonwealth War Graves site.
His name doesn't appear on the medal lists for WW1.
His name doesn't appear on the list of WW1 derserters.
His name doesn't appear on the usual 1837 lists of deaths.

In short, we can't find him anywhere!!

The Republic of Ireland was neutral during WW1, wasn't it? Could he have enrolled in the army in Ireland? Would that mean he wouldn't appear on any of the medal/war grave lists etc for Britain?

Has anyone got any ideas? We've been working on this for months and would love to be able to knock down this brick wall.

[Geoffers]

[We're trying to track down someone who family tradition tells us died in France during WW1. He was born in Ireland in 1876, but by 1900 was living in England. His son's death certificate in 1918 described him as 'The late, Private, Essex Regiment'.]

Could he have served in the Army and died prior to WW1? Try searching earlier records, including those for the Boer War, unless you know for sure that he was alive until 1914.

[The man we are looking for is Walter Hastings Conbour HUNGERFORD.
His name doesn't appear on the Commonwealth War Graves site.
His name doesn't appear on the medal lists for WW1.
His name doesn't appear on the list of WW1 derserters.]

Is he recorded in the lists of those sentenced to death - there is a published work listing all such sentences:

"Sentences passed by Military Courts of the British Army, 1914-1924" - Compiled by Oram and Putkowski.

[His name doesn't appear on the usual 1837 lists of deaths.]

Have you also tried the 'Index to Army other ranks' war deaths 1914-1921'? -
and in case he did die earlier, 'Index to Natal and South Africa Forces deaths 1899-1902'

The National Archives (TNA) have some death certificates issued by French and Belgian Hospitals - I think they're in class RG35?

[In short, we can't find him anywhere!!]

His son's death certificate may of course have been wrong - maybe he wasn't 'The late' - perhaps reported as missing presumed dead and later turned up having been captured???!!

Geoffers
Charlbury, Oxfordshire

[Lindad]

Hi Geoffers

This is all a real mystery.

We know that Walter was alive up until 1914 when his youngest son was born. This was the same son who died four years later and on whose death certificate Walter is described as 'the late...'.

His widow always strongly maintained that Walter died in France in 1917 - but she always got very upset when talking about... which made us wonder if there was something 'odd' about his death.

We have been assured that his name does not appear on the list of deserters, or those soldiers who were shot following Court Martial.

He certainly didn't turn up after the war... if only he had!!

[Geoffers]

[We know that Walter was alive up until 1914 when his youngest son was born. This was the same son who died four years later and on whose death certificate Walter is described as 'the late...'. His widow always strongly maintained that Walter died in France in 1917]

It just needed he 'widow' to say that he was deceased - maybe he wasn't?? Many death sentences were commuted, could he have been imprisoned for theft or something similar?

Was he a bigamist and after the war went to his other wife?

Have you tried the Essex Regiment (or whatever it has probably been amalgamated into) to see if they have any records? Could he have actually been in Ireland and with his Irish birth, swapped sides and been killed in the uprising?

Was he illegitimate and enlisted under another name? Have you tried the soldiers documents held at Kew in WO363? These are known as the 'burnt documents' on account of so many being damaged/destroyed by enemy action in WW2. However, some of them are legible or partially legible. It may be that his can at least be partially read, TNA online catalogue gives the microfilm reference under which he might appear (if his name is recorded as Hungerford) as WO 363/H 2622.

The above are just ideas that come to mind, sorry I can't be more positive.

Geoffers
Charlbury, Oxfordshire

[eileenb]

Did he use his full name?
There is a Lance Corporal W Hastings No. 14859 on CWGC Royal Irish Rifles 10th Battalion died 07.06.1916
Have you checked him out?

[Lindad]

Thanks Geoffers, I think!! We thought we'd worked our way through all the discouraging stuff, but maybe not quite all... :(

Eileen, thanks for that! We have wondered if he could have enlisted under another name and your find is definitely worth checking out!

:) but :confused: !!

[Steve Fuller]

Hi Lindad

Im prob not helping, but have you tried variants of his name?

Ill have a think about this one & get back to you; theres usually a solution somewhere!!

Steve

[Lindad]

Thanks Steve. Yes, we've tried all the variants... and then some!

However, we've recently been given a new lead which may just help us over this brickwall. By the weekend, all may have been solved!

[Steve Fuller]

Thanks Steve. Yes, we've tried all the variants... and then some!

However, we've recently been given a new lead which may just help us over this brickwall. By the weekend, all may have been solved!

In that case Ill keep 'em crossed for you! Good luck Linda!

[Lindad]

In that case Ill keep 'em crossed for you! Good luck Linda!
Thanks Steve! Fingers, toes, eyes... whatever you can cross, please do!! ;)

[Lindad]

Ah well, it now appears that there is a reason none of us have been able to find Walter HUNGERFORD's death in 1917... he apparently died in Fulham in 1945!

A mystery that the family have been trying to solve for the last 87 years has at last been partially solved. It seems that Clara, Walter's 'widow' may never have actually married Walter. We assume he left her soon after the birth of their second child in 1914 and this was the beginning of her claim that he died in France in 1917. In reality he married Hilda Mary Clarke towards the end of 1914. They divorced in 1917(?) and he then married Mary F Broadbent in 1923.

This means Walter had three wives (and families???) that Clara's family never knew about... !:eek:

So, the search goes on... this time for the descendents of Walter and Christina BECKTON, Walter and Hilda CLARKE and Walter and Mary BROADBENT. We think we've found the five children of Walter and Christina, but now have to start looking for any children that Hilda and Mary may have had!

How we long for the 1911 census... and the 1921... |banghead|

[Geoffers]

[Ah well, it now appears that there is a reason none of us have been able to find Walter HUNGERFORD's death in 1917... he apparently died in Fulham in 1945!]

Thanks for posting the details, I'm often curious how these little mysteries turn out. Also, this is as good an example as any, not to take family tradition too seriously! At least you've got there - the next question that springs to my mind is that if he definitely isn't in the medal rolls, what did he do in WW1? Did he disappear to avoid the war? Was he in prison?

[Walter had three wives (and families???) that Clara's family never knew about... ! So, the search goes on... this time for the descendents of Walter and Christina BECKTON, Walter and Hilda CLARKE and Walter and Mary BROADBENT.]

At least they will be easier to find in the GRO indexes. I wonder if he left a will and mentions all/any of these wives and/or children???

Good luck

Geoffers
Charlbury, Oxfordshire

[Lindad]

Ah Geoffers, all these questions and many more are buzzing through our minds right now. If only we knew...

[Peter Goodey]

You'll be wanting to follow up that divorce. Do you have any evidence that there actually was one? 1917 is probably a bit early not to be a little suspicious about alleged divorces.

See here for more:
http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=53

[Lindad]

You'll be wanting to follow up that divorce. Do you have any evidence that there actually was one? 1917 is probably a bit early not to be a little suspicious about alleged divorces.

See here for more:
http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=53

Yes, we found the divorce listed in the index... but got thrown out of TNA at 5.00pm just as we were going to find the interesting bit!!

Looking up divorces is a real fiddle - and not a quick task!!!!

[Lindad]

Oh dear! Tried to edit the above message... and now wish I hadn't bothered. The edited version has more duplicate text than the first!!

What I was trying to say was... yes, we found the divorce listed in the index - but got thrown out of TNA at 5.00pm just as we were about to look at the interesting bit!

Looking up divorces is quite a fiddle and not a quick task!

[Lindad]

And now, in the process of trying to create a message using good English, I've just aged and become a 'Senior Member'! What a cheat!!