Looking for details of Annie Reid/Thomas Ferris [Archive] - British Genealogy & Family History Forums

InaG

18-01-2006, 1:50 PM

I am trying to find out details re my mother's parents Annie Reid and Thomas Ferris.
My mother was born in 1910 and her birth is registered in the Govan District of Glasgow. Her parents never married and she was brought up by Agnes and Patrick Strain. We were told (but it was never verified) that Agnes Strain was the sister of Thomas Ferris.
thanks anyone who can help or at least give me some clues where to look.

joette

19-01-2006, 1:47 PM

HI your best starting point is Scotlands People which is the official site to search for Scottish BMD online.
I would start with the 1901 Census to find out where her parents were.This may give you details of the grandparents names/locations & off course their ages.From that you should be able to trace their Birth records which are aviable to view online for a fee but which give Parents names,maiden name of Mother,place of birth & occupation of father & date,place of marriage.
Her Birth details would have to be obtained from New Register House as the Birth is less than 100 years.

InaG

19-01-2006, 2:00 PM

Thanks Joette.
I have sent for my mum's birth certificate which should give me more details of her parents. Then I will search on Scotlands people to see what I can find. I have the difficulty of not knowing very much (ie ages/place of birth etc) for my grandparents so it makes it a bit harder.
Thanks again
Ina

DebbieAnn

19-01-2006, 9:42 PM

I took a quick look on Scotlands People to see if I could find a marriage for Agnes Ferris to (male) Strain. There were 7 Agnes Ferris marriages (6 in the Glasgow area) but none to a man named Strain.

Then I looked for a marriage for Thomas Ferris, hoping to find perhaps a later one to Annie Reid. There were a number of Thomas Ferris marriages, bit none to your Annie (well, it was worth a shot).

Then I ran out of credits. What you might want to do is search the 1891 census (when both Agnes and Thomas would probably have been living in the same household) to find them and discover his parents' names. You could then search the 1901 census, first for Thomas Ferris and then for Agnes Ferris or Agnes Strain. Annie Reid is a much more common name in the area, and will be harder to identify, especially if you know of no one else in her household. You may have to wait for the 1911 census to come out in order to find your mother and the household she was living in when she was a year old. Perhaps she lived with her mother for a time before she went to be raised by Agnes? Do you know why her mother or her mother's people didn't raise her? Did she die in childbirth?

Debbie

InaG

20-01-2006, 11:18 AM

Hi Debbie
Thanks for looking. As far as we were told my mother's parents never married. We understood that Annie Reid had died due to childbirth but, when I spoke to the young man at the Register Office, the only Annie Reid he could find that seemed a possibility died a year later of TB. The other Annie Reid deaths he found for that year did not seem to fit the bill due to age and cause of death. I think I am going to be really confused with this as so much of what we were told appears to be untrue and, we also think that the Ferris family originated from Ireland. Gulp, not sure what I have started here. I will see what info I can get from my mum's birth certificate and then register on the sites.
Thanks again for looking.
Ina
x

InaG

31-01-2006, 12:55 PM

I have managed to trace my grandparents. Thomas Ferris was born in Glasgow 1887 and his parents were William and Bridget (nee Welsh) Ferris, My adoptive grandparents were Patrick and Agnes (nee Welsh) Strain so it is possible that Agnes was either Thomas's Aunt or sister (if Bridget gave birth before marriage) will have to look into that (but need more credits)
Annie Reid died in 1911 and her parents were Robert and Jane/Janet (nee Cameron). she was 22 when she died.
so at least I have a bit more info to go on but the sites eat your credits up very quickly.
thanks to everyone for their help and if anyone knows anything else, all info gratefully received.
thanks
InaG

DebbieAnn

31-01-2006, 9:25 PM

Patrick Strain and Agnes Welsh were married on 19 May 1911 at St. Luke's Church, Glasgow (Roman Catholic). He, age 29, a Carter and she, age 26, a Hair Factory Worker, were listed as living at the same address: 184 Rose Street, South Glasgow. Her parents, both deceased, were: Thomas (occ: Mason's Laborer) and Mary (maiden name McGuire) Welsh. His mother is listed as Ellen Strain (so he may have been born out of wedlock). Ellen's two husbands are listed as: Edward Con*** (unreadable), a shipyard laborer, and 2nd Francis Cairns, occ: ***(unreadable) machine factory worker. Witnesses were Patrick McArdle and Helen Cruickshank. Registered in Hutchesontown, Glasgow.

Now, if you have Bridget's parents, you can compare...

Debbie

DebbieAnn

31-01-2006, 9:39 PM

OK, here's something really strange that may be a completely different family, but the similarities are striking:

Ann Ferris, nee Welsh, widow of Thomas Ferris a dock laborer, died 17 Apr 1918 in Barnhill Poorhouse, Glasgow. Her usual residence was 72 Clyde Street, Anderston, Glasgow. She was age 71, and died of chronic nephritis (more than 105 days). Her parents, both deceased, were: Henry Welsh, a bell hanger, and Eliza (nee Leonard) Welsh. Her son, James Ferris of her usual address, signed the death certificate. Registered in Garngadhill, Glasgow.

Anyway, I found it interesting...

Debbie

DebbieAnn

31-01-2006, 10:10 PM

FOUND IT!!!!!! |jumphappy

Checked the 1891 census for Thomas Ferris age 3 or 4 in the Glasgow area, and found Thomas Ferries living with parents William (occ: Carter) and Bridget at 28, Hallride Street, Hutchesontown, Glasgow.

Then looked for death of Bridget Ferries. She died on 13 July 1894 in Cathcart, Renfrew. She was wife to William Ferries, Carter. She was 28 years old at death, and her parents were: Thomas Welsh (deceased), a mason's laborer, and Mary Welsh, maiden name McGuire. Bridget's cause of death is listed as Acute Rhumatism, Failure of Heart, 7 days. Makes you wonder if she had Rheumatic Fever... Her husband William signed the certificate. Interestingly, her mother IS NOT listed as deceased, so if you find HER death certificate (btwn 1894 and 1911) you can go back another generation!

Bridget (22) and William Ferries (23) were married on 8 Apr 1887 in Gorbals, Glasgow (Church of Scotland). Elizabeth Welsh was a witness (another sister?). His father is George Ferries, his mother is Ann (Henderson) Ferries, deceased.

So, Agnes was the sister of William Ferries' wife!

Debbie

DebbieAnn

31-01-2006, 10:37 PM

Found Thomas Ferris' death certificate!!

He died on 2 May 1953 at the Royal Infirmary, Glasgow at the age of 65 years. It states he was formerly a seaman in the Merchant Service, and was the widower of Annie Reid!! The death is registered in Townhead, Glasgow. Parents, both deceased, were William and Bridget (Welsh) Ferris. Thomas died of a fractured skull, as the result of an accident. His daughter, Augusta V. Lilly, of 21 Playfair Street, Leeds, signed the certificate.

So, he had considered himself married to Annie, whether or not there was a formal wedding ceremony, and after she died (in childbirth?) his mother's sister took in the child (his own mother having already died) while he went (back?) to sea in the Merchant Navy, and he NEVER REMARRIED!

Do you know when Annie's mother Jane/Janet died?

Debbie

InaG

01-02-2006, 10:34 AM

Thank you all of you. It is helping to take me a bit further. I have joined Scotland's people and used up most of my credits in one day. The info you have given will help me go a bit further. I have found out that both sets of g. parents to Thomas and Annie were born in Ireland.
Now, all I have to do, is put together all the info I have, in an order I can understand and then start digging again. I knew about my grandad (Thomas) dying because my mum travelled to Scotland with my eldest sister to attend to his funeral but have to admit my memory was hazy as to the year etc.
Thank you all again for your help, not just in the information you find out but the hints you give for the next steps.
xx
InaG

DebbieAnn

01-02-2006, 12:06 PM

Bridget's father Thomas Welsh died on 30 Jan 1894 in Govan, Lanarkshire - a pauper in the Govan Poorhouse. He was the husband of Mary Mcguire, who signed her mark on his death certificate. His usual address was 34 Rose Street, Glasgow. He was formerly a bricklayer's laborer. His age is given as 52, so he was born about 1842. Cause of death was acute bronchitis. His parents were: Patrick Welsh, deceased, a laborer, and Mary Welsh, maiden name Murdoch, deceased.

Debbie

DebbieAnn

01-02-2006, 12:24 PM

Mary (Murdoch) Welsh, widow of Patrick Welsh, died on 15 Jan 1885 in Hutchesontown, Lanarkshire, age 55 years (so born about 1830). Cause of death was bronchitis, and her daughter Ann Cryans made her mark on the certificate to verify the death. Mary's parents were: Thomas Murdoch, farmer, deceased, and Mary Murdoch, maiden name Kilhouley.

Ina, I would suggest that you use all these specifics that I'm giving you to accurately access the records on ScotlandsPeople without having to waste a lot of credits looking for the correct records, and then download a copy to keep in your personal genealogy files where future generations can find them, rather than just use the transcription data I'm providing. Seeing the actual handwritten record is just so much more satisfying...

Debbie

joette

01-02-2006, 12:32 PM

Also if he died in the Poorhouse then their may be lots of info in the Mitchell Library Archives awaiting you! Glasgow kept very extensive records of it's "deserving Poor" which often gives information not aviable elsewhere.
So worth a delve to see!

DebbieAnn

01-02-2006, 12:34 PM

Patrick Welsh, general laborer and husband of Mary Murdoch, died 20 Dec 1880 in Hutchesontown, age 70 (so born about 1810) of chest disease. Michael Welsh, a son, signed his mark. Patrick's parents, both deceased, were: Patrick Welsh, a general laborer, and Elizabeth Welsh, maiden name McDairmid.

Debbie

DebbieAnn

01-02-2006, 1:15 PM

Bridget's parents, Thomas Welsh (age 21) and Mary McGuire (age 17), married on 24 Jan 1865 at St. John's Chapel, Glasgow (Roman Catholic). Marriage registered in Hutchesontown. Her parents were: John McGuire, a clothes dealer, and Bridget McGuire, deceased, maiden name Brannon.

Debbie

DebbieAnn

01-02-2006, 1:39 PM

If I can offer a bit of direction:

1. See if you can locate a death record for John McGuire, widower of Bridget Bannon. It's possible he was also living in Glasgow, and a death certificate would prove he immigrated from Ireland, as well as listing his parents' names. I would limit the search to btwn 1865, when he was probably around age 36-40 or so, and 1910, when he would have been 70-85.

2. I could not easily find a death certificate for John's daughter Mary, but if you could locate one, it would also tell if her father were deceased at the time of her death, limiting your search for his death even more - a good thing.

3. As a matter of course, you should look for William Ferries' birth record, using his age at marriage as a guide.

4. I did not go back in Willian Ferries' line - given his age at the time of his marriage to Bridget, you should search for his parents' marriage within 10 years of his birth date. While it's possible they may have married in Ireland, you may get lucky. This would give not only their ages at the time of their marriage, and so their rough birth dates, but their parents' names as well.

5. Look for death records for William's parents. Even if they turn out to have married in Ireland, they may both have died in the Glasgow area. Then you will have their ages at death, from which you can derive their years of birth, and their parents' names.

From that point, you will likely have to start searching in Ireland.

6. Just to fill in siblings, etc. you should at this point look for all these families in each available census record. Then, if you or your children decide to follow these lines at some point, you'll know where to start.

Debbie

InaG

04-02-2006, 10:08 AM

Thank you Debbie for all your help. It certainly does help to narrow the search. My sister was really interested in what I have found out so far, although I have to admit, we are still puzzled about Annie Reid and why her family didn't appear to have anything to do with my mother. The difficulty is, the Annie Reid I have found seems the most feasible but, but, there is no proof I have the right one. (although instinct tells me I have). It is times like this you wish one of them was around to say ' Well, you see, it was like this' but of course, no chance.
Again thank you for your help. I will let you know what I find out.
ps, does anyone know how to print out one reply rather than the whole thread. My usual highlight and print doesn't work.
Thanks Joette, I will look in the records you have mentioned. x
Ina
xxxxx

Mary Young

04-02-2006, 10:37 AM

... John McGuire ... possible he was also living in Glasgow, and a death certificate would prove he immigrated from Ireland Just a picky point ... I very much doubt whether the death certificate will show his place of birth, AFAIK this information was only requested for one year, 1855.

Mary Young

04-02-2006, 10:40 AM

Ellen's two husbands are listed as: Edward Con*** (unreadable), a shipyard laborer, Hi, Debbie
Re Edward Con***, might it be CONLIN? I have some Glasgow Conlins in my tree.

DebbieAnn

04-02-2006, 8:57 PM

Mary,

When I was alluding to proof of immigration from Ireland, I simply meant that if the certificate was found in Scotland it would mean he came over, too. Ina said that he was born in Ireland, but didn't know if he remained there or came to Scotland at some point.

Debbie

Mary Young

04-02-2006, 10:35 PM

Mary,
When I was alluding to proof of immigration from Ireland, I simply meant that if the certificate was found in Scotland it would mean he came over, too. Sorry, I misunderstood, yet another senior moment. :o

patrick cryans

05-06-2006, 2:25 PM

Hi,
Can anyone help me with my research into the Cryans family, you mentioned Ann Cryans (Welsh) she is related to me can you contact [email protected]
I would like to know more about her husband Patrick Cryans

DebbieAnn

06-06-2006, 2:18 AM

Found another one!!! |jumphappy

Death of Ann Ferris, married to George Ferris general laborer, died 21 Nov 1880 in Hutchesontown, Glasgow, age 43 years. Father: William Henderson, Sherriff's officer (deceased), Mother: Mary Henderson, maiden name: McCabe (looks like), (deceased). Cause of death: (hard to read, but means bleeding from right kidney, abt 33 days), George signed.

Debbie :cool:

janeygee

08-08-2008, 4:19 PM

DebbieAnn

08-08-2008, 10:33 PM

|banghead| HI Debbie;

Been reading through the 'posts' for 'Glasgow,Lanark,' and I notice you seem to be a 'hive' at finding long lost ancestors so I wonder if you can find some second cousins & their children,,,,,
"Mildred Hutchieson Blain" (b) 20June,1899.(mar) "William Wilson"(b) 1897 they
were 'first/cousins'(both their mother's were sisters) they married 17Sept,1920. usual address was "67 Dalhousie St, Cowcaddens,Glasgow,,,, witness's
Andrew C.Blain & Helen H.Wilson",,, I am looking for any children they had born in Glasgow,,as years later the family emmigrated to "Aust." I have found "Mildred H.Wilson" death in '1976' age 78yrs.Victoria,Aust. I heve ordered the 'cert',,,but I would love to know when they emmigrated and how many children,,if you can be of any help Debbie I would appreciate it very much.,thanks,,,

Regards;
Janey;

According to what I was able to find, they had William Jr. (c.1922), Geanne (c.1924), and Mildred (c.1931). Mildred was born in Australia. There is a William, son of William and Mildred, that died in 1985 at age 62, but that William was born in Australia. You can search the Victoria, Australia records online for a small fee at: https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search. If you pay to download the image, you can verify the information without having to wait for it to be sent by mail (they are scanned images of the actual documents). Mildred died a widow, so you'll want to locate: her husband's death, and her childrens' marriages or deaths. Also, Scotland BMD info can be searched at: http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/ for a fee.

Best of luck!

janeygee

12-08-2008, 3:10 AM

|hug||jumphappy HI DEBBIE:

Thank you so very much for the latest news of my above 'cousins',,, I am just thrilled and will get busy finding I hope members of the family still in "Aust".
You know it's funny but quite a few years ago I was browsing an "Aussie"
site and I found some info of a "Mildred H.Wilson" making an application to buy some land/property in "Melbourne" if I remember correct,it gave husband's name as "William"age 35yrs and the "DATE" was in "1931",,,!!!!!!

I did not give it much value as I had been thinking they emmigrated from Scot
either before WW2 or just after,and I have been concentrating on this time frame,,,,!!!!

Well Debbie the 'son' Wm Wilson (d) '1985' age 62yrs saying he was born in 'Aust' I think that could be a mistake as if you look at the 'birth-dates' they
match to him (b) 1922,,,!!!! I do not know where the name "Geanne" comes from but I will now search 'scotlands' people' and keep in touch letting you know results; Thank you again,you sure are a 'Beaver',,,,,!!!!!!!:)

Kind regards;

Janey;