Mystery Marriage - St George In The East

[hethmar]

Hi, I think I have exhausted every avenue looking for the marriage of my GGFx2, James Horstead of Norfolk to a Mary Anne ? They appear in the 1851 census living at Ashley Place, Ratcliff, Stepney with the children which would indicate a marriage of about 1837. However cant find them anywhere nor the birth records of the kids. I would like to know the wife's surname.

I have found death records for them both. In the wife's she is called just Anne Horstead (not Mary Anne).

Anyone got any other ideas please?

[Steve Steere]

Hi, I think I have exhausted every avenue looking for the marriage of my GGFx2, James Horstead of Norfolk to a Mary Anne ? They appear in the 1851 census living at Ashley Place, Ratcliff, Stepney with the children which would indicate a marriage of about 1837. However cant find them anywhere nor the birth records of the kids. I would like to know the wife's surname.

I have found death records for them both. In the wife's she is called just Anne Horstead (not Mary Anne).

Anyone got any other ideas please?
I think you need to consider that the children may not belong to Mary Anne but to a previous wife, so you really need to look at all marriages for James Horstead, including variants over many years.
I suggest you try FreeBMD, but just search on Horstead marriages over a number of years and nothing else, (James may be a middle name). View them by clicking on the page reference which brings up likely partners to see if you can get a hit.
You have a difficult task especially as they are in a densely populated area.

[Guy Etchells]

Have you checked the later census, do they indicate where Mary Anne was born?
Have you considered they may not have married prior to the birth of the first or even later children?
Is there an age differential to point to a possible second marriage?
What is James' occupation does that give any clues as to a route between Norfolk and Stepney?
Are there any wills do they give any clues?
Cheers
Guy

[busyglen]

Hi, I think I have exhausted every avenue looking for the marriage of my GGFx2, James Horstead of Norfolk to a Mary Anne ? They appear in the 1851 census living at Ashley Place, Ratcliff, Stepney with the children which would indicate a marriage of about 1837. However cant find them anywhere nor the birth records of the kids. I would like to know the wife's surname.

I have found death records for them both. In the wife's she is called just Anne Horstead (not Mary Anne).

Anyone got any other ideas please?

Hi,

There is also the possibility that they didn't get married! I have the same problem with my `rellies' in Chelsea. I couldn't find birth registrations for the children, and then struck lucky with the last child, so was able to get the wife's maiden name, to help trace a wedding. A check through the records at the PRO produced nothing. Have just discovered that the eldest child named as Joseph on the 1881 and other censuses was actually called James Joseph, so found a birth registration for him.

I am now wondering if my Joseph snr. was also a James instead of the Joseph I've been looking for. However, that still doesn't explain why I can't find Ann's wedding details.....unless they weren't married.

Just another point I thought worth mentioning.

[hethmar]

Hi guys, many thanks for the input but think I have covered just about everything. James was only about 20 when he "married" so cant be a second wife Im afraid. The 1851 shows her born in St George in the East but no sign of them anywhere in those records. They have not yet shown up in an 1861 cenus anywhere but I doubt they would have moved far as they were both dead by 1868. BMD only gives their deaths Im afraid, no marriage or births. But I know James is his name and correct birth date as I have checked this personally in the parish records.

I have managed to find that the youngest daughter, born 1850, does have a birth record but would this show the mother's maiden name?

As you say, it may be they never married. James was a farm boy who went to Stepney to work as a coal whipper, unloading barges. Obviously poor, so no Will!

Another case of alien abduction, eh.

[Paul Watts]

You need to get that birth cert - it will have full details of both parents and where they lived.

[hethmar]

Yes, Ive just received the birth cert for the youngest child born Christmas Day 1849. Yes, the maiden name of the mother is shown - what a break - its Smith!!! So thats not going to be a lot of help tracing her family. The parents were still living in Ratcliff, Stepney when the youngest was born. I dont think that will help me in any way will it?

Its back to the drawing board on this one, apparently they did marry then, as her name is given as Mary Ann Horstead formerly Smith.

[Geoffers]

[looking for the marriage of my GGFx2, James Horstead of Norfolk to a Mary Anne ? They appear in the 1851 census living at Ashley Place, Ratcliff, Stepney with the children which would indicate a marriage of about 1837.......I've just received the birth cert for the youngest child born Christmas Day 1849. Yes, the maiden name of the mother is shown - what a break - its Smith!!!]

I was just browsing old messages and came across your postings here. Just a passing thought, but in the 1851 census, where was Mary Anne shown as being born and where were the children born?? If it's the same place, or area; at least that gives you a starting point in seaching the parish registers to try and locate a marriage. Also, you have both surnames of the couple along with rough ages from the census. I think it will take some work, but I don't think it's a hopeless cause just yet.

Geoffers

[hethmar]

Hi everyone, thanks for your input. The update is that I had dismissed a marriage in 1854 of a James Horstead as that would have been 17 years after the couple had got together. When I found the mothers name on the birth cert of the youngest child I started trawling again - surprise surprise yes, it was them getting married in 1854! I wonder why?

I have their marriage cert so I am absolutely certain it is them as James names his father as Jonas, ag lab. Mary Ann Smith also gave me a break on the marriage cert as she names her father as William Webb Smith, Officer in the Customs. Through that I have managed to find two of her siblings and the marriage of her father to an Elizabeth Rose. I have also found his birth record on the IGI - parents William and Rachel. So, amazingly things have moved on very well.

Many thanks for your interest and input. Often a fresh brain/pair of eyes makes a lot of difference.

Still looking for the marriage of Edward Horstead and Elizabeth Selby circa 1760 in Norfolk if anyone has any thoughts!! Geoffers, old friend from Norfolk!, I have found an IGI record of a Christopher Selby from Mattishall (born c 1702) marrying an Elizabeth Browne in Middleton in May1727 - this is my next stop. Elizabeth Selby was born 1741 - so possible parents or relatives? Only thing is, no children named Christopher in the Edward/Liz marriage which throws me a bit. Grateful for any input.

[Peggy]

I have a case (in Aston, Warks) of a couple marrying more than 20 years after getting together. During all of those years, he was a "widower" and she was his "boarder" on census returns. I finally found his wife and their young son living near her mother.

His wife finally did die (cause of death: syncope, said the coroner - - - I have my suspicions), and the happy couple were married about a month later.

Peggy

[Paul Watts]

Pleased to hear that you have had some success - at least out in the sticks you stand a better chance of finding information on the LDS site!

Happy hunting

Regards

Paul

[Geoffers]

[I have their marriage cert so I am absolutely certain it is them as James names his father as Jonas, ag lab. Mary Ann Smith also gave me a break on the marriage cert as she names her father as William Webb Smith, Officer in the Customs.]

Hello Heather
TNA at Kew has a fair bit on Customs Officers, their daily activities and wages. I found quite a lot on one of my wife's ancestors (he was an Outdoor Officer) at Kew.

[Still looking for the marriage of Edward Horstead and Elizabeth Selby circa 1760 in Norfolk if anyone has any thoughts!! Geoffers, old friend from Norfolk!,]

I've forgotten whether I've suggested it or not, but for the parish(es) where you have found their children being baptised - have you checked the manor records to see if there is any indication of transfer of copyhold, examination, settlement, etc?

Happy Christmas
Geoffers