Voyeurism

[Sharron]

I'm not jealous. No really, I'm not!!

But my family tree is really boring. Lots of lovely people, but the most notorious I have is a boy being chucked out of the army because he was underage.

I know! Sad, isn't it?

However (!), I would be really interested in other posters' famous relations or infamous tales!

[Trish]

Okay, I'll start the ball rolling:

One branch of my family, the REEDs, were notorious reivers in Northumbria. They lived at Troughend Hall in the Redesdale area for over 800 years and happily raided the Scottish border counties... stealing sheep, cattle and whatever else they could get their hands on -- no doubt committing meyhem and murder in the process.

Various descriptions of the REED clan as raw, uncouth, quarrelsome brawlers exist in history books. They forged allegiances with other border families through marriage -- most notably with the Scottish Armstrongs -- and managed not to lose their lands and fortune when reiving was finally outlawed.

One of my many-times-great grandfathers is immortalized in a local ballad, "The Death of Parcy Reed." (Just Google the title to get the whole sordid story.) Parcy's death -- thought to have occurred sometime in the 16th century, at the hands of the "treacherous" Halls -- resulted in all Halls being driven out of Redesdale for years to come. Apparently, Parcy's ghost haunts Carter Fell, the site of his murder, to this day, scaring poor souls out on the moor.

I have other skeletons in the closet but Parcy is my favourite.

Sharron, I'm sure you have more than enough black sheep in your family's past -- they're just staying well hidden!

So who else has some famous or infamous kin or tales to tell?

Trish

[Sharron]

"To the hunting, ho!" indeed, Trish!

[Ken Boyce]

What would be of great interest is to know how these spicy facts were uncovered

I know from personal experience that one of my aunts was the notorious leader of a London cult and was the subject of News of the World articles in the 1950s - this late date should make it easier to produce verification of the facts - but no nothing - due in part because I've forgotten the fancy name she went by.

For those of you with juicy tales to tell how was the connection between events or life style and family member made and verified to show that it is nothing more than heresay

Heresay states that I have a Viscount as an ancestor - only by the greatest stretch of the imagination have I found the weakest of weak connections so far and thats because I went looking for a connection. Had I allowed the facts to imerge by themselves there would be no hint of this connection The only reason I know of my aunt's antics is because as a teenager I read the newspaper articles and listened in on the family discussions about her.

The normal run of the mill research based on familyu trees does little to put the meat on the bones

What are the thoughts and/or experiences of others in this regard?

[Ladkyis]

Following the family myths told by my aunt (dad's sister)

1. Gran was an actress and went all over the world
2. there's a Spanish jewess in our family
3. we are related to the Lyons of Lyons corner house fame

was how I found my jewish relatives in Australia, discovered the tragic death of one of great grandma's sisters when they were children and recently learnt about how 3 men were indicted for feloniously killing and slaying my 3 times great grandfather.
I have confirmed that my dad's gran was an actress and did go all over the world - well Canada at least. There is a Spanish Jew in my ancestry - Sephardi
but the Lyons Corner House connection seems to be just that one of great grandma's sisters married a man with the surname LYONS

The point about this is that you have to chase the information and see how much is true and how much is embroidery if only to cross it off the list of things to learn. As to how I did it well, without the good people on this forum and the members of a family history society I would still be wondering if great grandma had any siblings. I could not know all I do know about my ancestors without the help of all these fantastic people and I try to show my gratitude and thanks by helping everyone that I can.
Ann

[Colin Moretti]

If you can access it The Times digital archive is a marvelous resource for finding (in)famous relatives, although I have to admit that having unusual surnames (Moretti, Pagliano) helps.

Just such a search gave a brief item about a Moretti being committed to trial for stealing. To cut a long story short I found that it was my g grandfather who as a young man worked for the Post Office and stole a marked letter containing money. I now have copies of his trial report (not too exciting, he pleaded guilty) plus his prison record (6 years hard labour, most at Portland Prison); I'm pleased to say that the experience seems to have had the desired effect, I've no evidence he reoffended. The governor's daily journal was a fascinating diversion, dealing as it did with escapes, deaths, prisoner mutinies, visits from Prince Albert, etc, etc.

I also got quite excited when I found a murderer but it turned out that he wasn't family - what a disappointment!

You'll probably need access to a large library to be able to do the search of The Times, it is normally only available on subscription to institutions.

Colin

[Clive Blackaby]

Yes, I know the feeling. I have yet to verify the family tradition that my Great Grandmother Eliza King was fluent in Welsh.

She was a formiddable lady who bore 13 children (all of whom survived into adulthood), only just missed her centenary, and wore voluminous dresses in which she (allegedly) concealed a bottle of whisky - a liking inherited by many of her descendents, some of whom liked the amber nectar a little too much.

But Welsh?? OK, so we know her maiden name was Jones, which would fit, but we also know she was born in Loose, in Kent. Her favourite joke was that she was a Loose woman. We also know that her parents were married in Kent, and I believe from Census info etc. that they were also born there. So if they spoke Welsh, who did they talk to??

Based on the fact as known, I have to conclude it was not Welsh she spoke, but pure Scotch :(

[ChristineR]

My first cousin, five times removed, was one Priscilla Biggadyke, nee Whiley.
She was the last person executed at Cobb Hall, Lincoln Castle 28 December 1868 and is buried there. She protested her innocence to the end. She was having an affair with the lodger, with some question of paternity of her last child - and she was the one who brought the rat poison, but it was the lodger who poisoned her husband. In those days the sentence was often changed to transportation, but not in this case and poor Priscilla was hung. The lodger confessed on his deathbed years later and she was pardoned - not that it helped her much. I believe she was also the first woman hung after private hangings were introduced - she didn't die neatly.

It is well documented in newspaper reports, and books. The confession is also documented, in one newspaper at least, and not a fanciful add-on to the story by family.

I would have been unlikely to have found this out myself - it was in a Whiley Family History book, mentioned as being the closest we had to a convict in the family :D

Christine.
Australia

[ChristineR]

and some little bits for my husband's family...

A 2nd cousin, twice removed - Damien Parer, famous Australian War photographer. (1912-1944) This was not known by our family.

Family rumour: Nanna Prince nursed Ned Kelly (notorious Australian Bushranger) Nanna Prince was Eliza Jane Mutton - also reportedly the first white chiild born in Avenel. (She is number one on the birth reg when civil reg came in)
Fact: Actually, Ned was about the same age as Nanna Prince, she may have nursed his younger brother. Eliza Jane did go to school with Ned Kelly. Ned's father, Red Kelly, rented a dairy farm from 3rd great grandmother Elizabeth Mutton (nee Lock) during the few years that they lived at Avenel, Victoria. The family left after Red died. I believe Ned spoke later of the Avenel people as stuck-up Poms. :D

In North Melbourne stands "Mac's Hotel" This was built in 1853 by 3rd great grandfather, John McMillan (born Sutherland, Scotland, 1816) who had been a publican since the early 1840s. "Mac's Hotel" is classified by the National Trust - it's claim to fame is that it is the oldest surviving 'purpose-built' hotel in Melbourne and has operated under the same name since opening.
This was also news to the family, this info had not filtered down into family stories, though they did know of Scottish descent and the McMillan name has been used in every second generation, even to present day.

Christine
Australia

[Trish]

My first cousin, five times removed, was one Priscilla Biggadyke, nee Whiley.
She was the last person executed at Cobb Hall, Lincoln Castle 28 December 1968 and is buried there. She protested her innocence to the end. She was having an affair with the lodger, with some question of paternity of her last child - and she was the one who brought the rat poison, but it was the lodger who poisoned her husband. In those days the sentence was often changed to transportation, but not in this case and poor Priscilla was hung. The lodger confessed on his deathbed years later and she was pardoned - not that it helped her much. I believe she was also the first woman hung after private hangings were introduced - she didn't die neatly.I love this one! So the dastardly lodger did poor Priscilla in. Do you know what happened to the child whose paternity was in question?

Trish

[Trish]

What would be of great interest is to know how these spicy facts were uncovered...Well, I'm still amazed at how little I knew when I started out... how much I know now... and how much I have yet to find out -- I hope.

Three years ago, I decided to try and find out where REED -- a middle name handed down through the generations in my father's family -- came from. All I knew was that one of our ancesters was named Robert Walker BLACK -- and that he had been a doctor in northern Scotland.

Reed--Black--Scotland... Gawd... like looking for a needle in a haystack, right? Right. Or so I thought...

I did a Google search and found Christine Stokes' marvelous Highland Hearts POSH site. It immediately offered up the memorial stone inscription for a Dr. Robert Walker Black in Tongue, Sutherland. I was able to confirm that he was indeed my Dr. Robert Walker Black.

Through the IGI and other records, I learned that the good doctor had married one Mary REED, the source of the enduring family middle name.

Next I scoured Rootsweb mailing lists, including Christine's [ex-]Sutherland list, and e-mailed Reed subscribers. One of them put me in touch with a Reed descendant. This kind lady gave me the connection back to Northumberland, to the Reeds of Troughend Hall in Redesdale. I learned about the family "livelihood" [reiving] by going to my local reference library and looking up books on the history of the border lands, a few of which contained specific references to the Troughend Reeds.

...end of Part 1. Part 2 to follow [to foil the repeating text bug].

[Trish]

Part 2...

Somewhere in amongst reading the books, scanning the Internet and getting lots of assistance from others, I found Parcy Reed and his ballad.

How do I know there's a connection? Okay, so I admit I can't swear to it without DNA backing but I'm fairly confident...

According to the ballad, colourful Parcy was laird of Troughend Hall, probably in the1500s or early 1600s. Historians say he existed but aren't sure of the exact dates. I have all the names of all the heads of Troughend going back in time to the 1600s. I can go back even further -- with some gaps here and there -- to just short of Parcy [a name, BTW, which was handed down through later Reed generations.]

Others with an interest in the Reeds have been kind enough to give me copies of such prized items as a 16th century will, photos of memorial stones, the odd death notice and a couple of newspaper advertisements.

I know now, after considerable cross-checking, that some of the information about the Reeds posted on some Internet sites is slightly off or just plain wrong, but -- ah well -- that just adds to the mystery and intrigue!

Trish

[ChristineR]

http://www.geocities.com/seraphim_angel_2002/PriscillaBiggadyke.html

I was pretty rapt to find all this detailed on a web page by a cousin, including a photo of Priscilla's grave and images of the newspaper stories. And other stuff comes up as well when googled - she was known as "The Stickney Murderess" at the time. The lodger, Thomas Proctor, died in 1882.

I believe the child in question died as an infant, along with the next oldest child.

Christine

[Trish]

http://www.geocities.com/seraphim_angel_2002/PriscillaBiggadyke.html

I was pretty rapt to find all this detailed on a web page by a cousin, including a photo of Priscilla's grave and images of the newspaper stories. And other stuff comes up as well when googled - she was known as "The Stickney Murderess" at the time. The lodger, Thomas Proctor, died in 1882.

I believe the child in question died as an infant, along with the next oldest child.

ChristineI've just spent a few minutes looking at the site. Gosh, what excruciating detail! Thomas Proctor doesn't sound hugely appealing: "uncooth-looking", "very repugnant", "a high back" [whatever that means!], and malformed legs. I wonder what Priscilla saw in him... :confused:

One of the newspaper extracts refers to "the Garner tragedy re-enacted, with all its sickly, immoral and terrible details". Okay, so now I, too, am "rapt", Christine! Garner is a surname in my family tree... What do you suppose the "Garner tragedy" was all about?

Poor Priscilla, by the way, must've died a horrible death if the hangman didn't do his job properly and she was left hanging there alive for some time.

Trish

[ChristineR]

Trish,

The detail was just too much for me, I was feeling the pain for my cousin, (blood is thicker than water :D ) and meant to go back another day and finish reading it. When it doesn't make me feel so sad. The media certainly had a way with words and it sold papers. I have saved the images somewhere, in case the web pages go down a black hole.

Obviously Thomas had something going for him that husband Richard Biggadyke didn't |blush| you could just imagine the cheeky comments that were about at the time. Actually, the spelling is sometimes Biggerdick, I prefer the other for obvious reasons, but I suppose that is how it was said!

The Garner tradegy - bet you did raise an eyebrow there - Let us know if you find anything.

Christine

[Trish]

...Obviously Thomas had something going for him that husband Richard Biggadyke didn't |blush| you could just imagine the cheeky comments that were about at the time. Actually, the spelling is sometimes Biggerdick, I prefer the other for obvious reasons, but I suppose that is how it was said!

The Garner tradegy - bet you did raise an eyebrow there - Let us know if you find anything...I can't imagine stuffing all those people -- parents, children and lodgers -- into 2 rooms. No wonder there was trouble. I wonder why Richard didn't turf the lodger at the first sign of trouble?

I'm sure the press had a major field day with the name.

Yes, I will let you know if I dig up anything about the "Garner tragedy" although it's probably unrelated to my little ol' family tree. My lot hovered around Shropshire and moved onto various seaports and had, at some point in time, anglicized their French name [Garnier to Garner] so successfully connecting them to other Garners is pretty tricky.

I'd still like to know what a "high back" is -- maybe a hump back?

Trish

[arthurk]

The "Garner tragedy" caught my eye too, because of Garner connections in Lincolnshire.

However, a brief Google came up with this (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050710/ENT07/507100323/1025/LIFE) - an incident in Ohio in 1856 when Margaret Garner, a fugitive slave, killed one of her children because this seemed preferable to its return to slavery.

So maybe there's no local (or even UK) reference at all.

Added a few minutes later:
Found another reference - here (http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/ENG-LINCSGEN/2004-04/1081378261). Someone called GARNER was murdered in Lincoln - though many years later.

Arthur

[Geoffers]

Not exactly famous, but my gt-grandfather, Ernest Edward Lowe was the first man to receive the Conspicuous Service Cross (late renamed the DSC - Distinguished Service Cross). He joined the Royal Navy at 18 and rose to Acting Gunner by the time of the South African (Boer) War. He landed with one of the Naval Brigades in 1899 and fought in several battles, being mentioned in despatches twice.

The first of these mentions was following the battle of Graspan, when most of the RN and RM officers were killed or injured in a charge on the right flank; just Captain Marchment of the RM and E.E.Lowe remained to continue leading the advance.

The citation for the CSC read, "for having charged to the top of a hill gallantly leading his men, all the time under a heavy fire."

continued.......

[Geoffers]

The medal was presented to him at St.James' Palace in June 1901 by King Edward. As the king pinned the medal on his chest, the Duke of York (later King George V) leaned towards the king and said, "This is the fellow who used to throw me out of my hammock in the Canada."

My gt-grandfather had also served in HMS Canada and was steerage-hammock man for the Duke.

Ernest Lowe married Maria Gosden, whose father, George Robert Gosden had also served in the RN as a Carpenter. George was court-martialled twice, the first time losing seniority, the second time being dismissed the service. I'd love to know what he did (both times), but have been unable to locate anything in the Admiralty records at TNA (Court-martial records and logs relating to the ships in which he served). I suspect it was probably drunkeness/fighting, nothing too serious, as he later re-entered the RN to serve time to pension.

Happy Christmas
Geoffers

[ChristineR]

Geoffers, It's a pity you cannot find the court-marshall records. Little things like that can really be annoying. Would there be a report in any newspapers - did they have their own little rag where they reported such things? Or be reported in his home town.

I had one young bloke go AWOL shortley after Gallipoli, they didn't find him for a while. Then he used the excuse that he had heard his brother had just arrived in Alexandria so went to meet up him, and then was told that his father had died (both true) and he was so overwhelmed he didn't come back in time at the end of his leave and decided to. His sentence of hard labour was changed to going to France, where he was wounded several times, but made it safely home. His war service file barely mentioned a court-marshall, it was filed separately.

Christine

[ChristineR]

I can't imagine stuffing all those people -- parents, children and lodgers -- into 2 rooms. .....
I'd still like to know what a "high back" is -- maybe a hump back?

Trish
I also think the Margaret Garner tradgedy might have been being used - in alluding to the level of public interest and media hype in the case.

Been thinking about a "high back" I have seen the odd football player on screen, though not with a hump back of course, but their shoulders 'look funny' like as if they are thrust forward at an odd angle, now I could imagine that a high back could do that? :D I had another brief read of Priscilla's trial - she really got hung for being a bit loose and unwifely - whilst innocent of actually administering the poison, she was no innocent. Since the jury indicated that it was only circumstanial evidence and pleaded mercy, one wonders if the Judge had a naughty wife himself - payback time against naughty women.

It gives a whole different picture in mind's eye when you look at census entries with a couple of lodgers and only a couple of rooms - people must have needed the money that these people brought in, despite the lack of privacy.

Christine

[Trish]

The "Garner tragedy" caught my eye too, because of Garner connections in Lincolnshire.

However, a brief Google came up with this (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050710/ENT07/507100323/1025/LIFE) - an incident in Ohio in 1856 when Margaret Garner, a fugitive slave, killed one of her children because this seemed preferable to its return to slavery.

So maybe there's no local (or even UK) reference at all.

Added a few minutes later:

Found another reference - here (http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/ENG-LINCSGEN/2004-04/1081378261). Someone called GARNER was murdered in Lincoln - though many years later.

ArthurArthur,

A fugitive slave? Poor woman.

There was another quite well-known "GARNER tragedy" in England -- although I believe this one happened a century or two earlier -- where a young woman was put on trial for witchcraft. She didn't survive the test to determine if she truly was a witch [if I recall correctly, she was dunked in water and drowned. If she had survived, she would've been declared a witch. At least, I think that how it worked...] Her husband and young family left England for America after her death.

The "Garner tragedy" referred to in the newspaper accounts of Priscilla's trial appeared -- in the reading of it -- to have happened recently and close by. But who knows?

Trish

[Trish]

Ah yes, the stories behind the statistics! Interesting, indeed! I'm sure you're on the money, Christine, when you speculate that the judge wasn't entirely objective. Poor Priscilla probably didn't have a snowball's chance in Hell. Literally.

Trish