1891 census

[royston]

Looking for Edwin Willett. born 1851-52.
I know from Ancestry that he was in Glamorgan on this census but am unable to access the site.
Any help appreciated, Roy

[Trish]

Roy,

This one?

Address: 25 Hillside ?St?, Wattstown, Glamorgan
RG12/4412 Folio 71 Page 33


Thos ?BARTHOLOMEW? / Head / M / 42 / Stoker [Engine] / [born] Kingston Lisle Berkshire
Elizth do / Wife / M / 20 / Wells Somersetre
Jno BAYNTON / Father in Law / M / 41 / Coal Miner / do do
Sarah do / Mother " / M / 42 / Radstock do
Henry do / Brother " / S / 22 / do / Wells do
Emily do / Sister " / S / 16 / Bridford Brecmshre
John do / Brother " / 14 / do / Risca Monmouthre
Wm do / do " / 10 / Scholar / do do
Geo. do / do " / 9 / do / Llwyngwril Glamorganre
Sarah J. do / Sister " / 6 / do / Swtong Monmouthre
Rachel ?EVANS? / Visitor / S / 21 / Blaina do
Edwin WILLETT / do / Widower / 39 / Coal Miner / Abersychan do


Edwin is listed as a [young] widower. Note that the head of the household is a man with a wife less than half his age and a father-in-law a year younger than he.

Any idea what Edwin's connection might be with the Bartholomews and the Bayntons?

Regards,
Trish

[Trish]

Roy, do you have the following?

1861 Census:
Address: Main St, Abersychan [town], Trevethin [parish], Monmouthshire, Wales
RG9/4009 Folio 41 Page 13

Thomas WILLETT Head Mar 38 Rail Inspector [born] Monmouthshire, Hereford
Mary Ann Do Wife Mar 33 Do Do
Edwin Do Son Un 10 Scholar Monmouthshire, Trevethin
[next page...]
Thomas WILLETT Son Un 8 Scholar born Monmouthshire, Trevethin
Joshua Do Do Do 5 Do Do
Louisa Do Daur Do 3 Do Do
?Micah? Do Do Do 1m Do Do

HTH,
Trish

[Trish]

And this?

1871 Census:
Address: High St, Pontypool [town], Trevethin [parish], Monmouthshire, Wales
RG10/5331 Folio 98 Page 314

Thomas WILLETT Head Mar 48 Rail Inspector [born] Home Lacey - Monmouthshire
Emily do Wife Mar 29 Mon Pontypool
Joshua do son Unm 15 Labourer do Abersychan
Louisa do daur 3 [sic] Do Do Scholar do do
Sarah BARRETT Servant 17 Servant do Pontypool

HTH,
Trish

[royston]

Hi Trish,
Thanks for your efforts. You are a gem.
This is certainly the family in 1861 and 1871. Thomas's first wife having died and he remarried. Edwin is the son of the first marriage.Edwins wife is in Ebbe Vale in 1891 with her daughter (my grandmother). She is shown as "single". I believe Edwin died in a mental institution about 1907 so maybe they had parted or perhaps he was suffering early symptoms and this had caused a split.
Thanks again, and have a vey Merry Christmas.
Roy

[Trish]

Hi Trish,
Thanks for your efforts. You are a gem.
This is certainly the family in 1861 and 1871. Thomas's first wife having died and he remarried. Edwin is the son of the first marriage.Edwins wife is in Ebbe Vale in 1891 with her daughter (my grandmother). She is shown as "single". I believe Edwin died in a mental institution about 1907 so maybe they had parted or perhaps he was suffering early symptoms and this had caused a split.
Thanks again, and have a vey Merry Christmas.
RoyYou are most welcome, Roy. So Edwin -- if he's the right one -- is shown as a widower in 1891 but he's not? [Just an FYI: the Edwin WILLETT I gave you is the only Edwin who shows up on the census for Wales as born about 1852 and living in Glamorgan.]

I see that Edwin is in the Monmouthshire Lunatic Asylum in the 1901 census. He's listed as a "Patient", a married, 42 year old "General Labourer, born in "Trevethin Mon" and labelled a "Lunatic". [Reference: RG13/4930 Folio 31 Page 25]

I don't see Edwin in 1881. Do you? But Edwin's parents are in the 1851 census -- do you have that info?

Trish

[royston]

Hi Trish,
Yes, I have the family on the 1851 census. They have led me a dance over the years.
Edwins wife and her daughter (Edith Sophia, my grandmother) are in Waunllwyd, nr. Ebbw Vale in 1891.
His wife, Elizabeth, says she is single (?).
As you say there is no other Edwin Willett to confuse mine with.
By 1881 Edwins father, Thomas and his new family are in Middlesborough. This probably explains why Edwins daughter, Edith Sophia, married a Yorkshire man and why my mother was born in Rotherham.
Elizabeth Willett, wife of Edwin, is buried in Ebbw Vale with her mother but no sign of Edwin.
Another strange point, although Edwin and Elizabeth (nee Jmessage=Hi Trish,
Yes, I have the family on the 1851 census. They have led me a dance over the years.
Edwins wife and her daughter (Edith Sophia, my grandmother) are in Waunllwyd, nr. Ebbw Vale in 1891.
His wife, Elizabeth, says she is single (?).
As you say there is no other Edwin Willett to confuse mine with.
By 1881 Edwins father, Thomas and his new family are in Middlesborough. This probably explains why Edwins daughter, Edith Sophia, married a Yorkshire man and why my mother was born in Rotherham.
Elizabeth Willett, wife of Edwin, is buried in Ebbw Vale with her mother but no sign of Edwin.
Another strange point, although Edwin and Elizabeth (nee Jones) married in Ebbw Vale in 1881 they are missing from the 1881 census here, or indeed anywhere else.
They certainly seem to have tried to evade at least 2 census dates as Elizabeth and her 2 children are not anywhere on the 1901 census either. Maybe the stigma of Edwins illness (?) There is a death for an Edwin Willett, June qtr. 1907 at Abergavenny, so I must assume that it is he, but the age is slightly out. I have yet to obtain a certificate.
I am very grateful for you interest and effort in trying to solve some of my mystery.
Roy

[DebbieAnn]

I may have found him in 1871: (edited to correct year)

He is a lodger at the home of George White and family in Tredegar, Bedwelty, Monmouthshire, Wales. The age is a couple of years off (given as 17). Another lodger there is Phillip Jones, age 33. Might he have been related to Elizabeth?

Name: Edward Willet
Age: 17
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Aberncha, Monmouthshire, Wales

Civil Parish or Township: Bedwellty
Ecclesiastical parish: Ebbw Vale
Town: Ebbw Vale
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales

Source information: RG10/5325
Registration district: Bedwellty
Sub-registration district: Tredegar
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Folio: 10
Page: 13

Debbie

[DebbieAnn]

And do you have this for 1891?

Edit - Oops, sorry, I didn't realize Trish had given you this one... :o

Debbie

[Trish]

I may have found him in 1881 ... DebbieI'm sure this is a typo and you mean 1871, right? ;)

I think what you found looks promising. Roy, what do you think?

Trish

[Trish]

Roy, do you know when in 1881 Edwin and Elizabeth married? There is an Elizabeth JONES on the 1881 census who could match your Elizabeth. She is about 20, born in Ebbw Vale and working as a housemaid in the MANLAY household in Bathwick, Somerset. [Reference: RG11/2433 Folio 4 Page 2]

Trish

[DebbieAnn]

Yup, finger slipped - oops.

Debbie

[DebbieAnn]

in 1881, there is an Edwin Jones:

Name: Edwin Jones
Age in 1881: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Relationship to head-of-household: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Abersychan, Monmouth, Wales
Address: 28 Boundary Row
Civil parish: Bedwellty
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Condition as to marriage: Unknown
Occupation: Iron Puddler

Source information: RG11/5246
Registration district: Bedwellty
Sub-registration district: Tredegar
ED, institution, or vessel: 30
Folio: 96
Page: 1

Strange, because the record I found for 1871 gave the occupation as 'Puddler' and he was lodging in the same town... could the family he was boarding with have assumed he was a Jones? or maybe they knew him as Jones? or maybe it's the wrong person? but the age and place of birth and occupation and current location and first name all fits...

Debbie

[royston]

Hi Trish,
Yes, Edwin and Elizabeth were married 31st. July 1881 in Ebbw Vale.
Having noted Debbie Ann's findings I believe that the one in 1881 could well be him.
Also that the Elizabeth you found in Somerset could be her. I think that the census took place before the marriage date so that would be ok.
I already had Edwin in 1871 in Ebbw Vale so the Edward does bother me a little.
Having expected a lot of trouble with any Jones line I certainly did not expect someone with the name Edwin Willett to give me so much trouble.
Again I can only offer my thanks to you both for your efforts.
Roy

[royston]

Hi Debbie Ann,
Thanks you so much for your time and effort on my behalf.
I think that you may have found Edwin in the 1881 census although I wonder why he was using the name Jones. The 1871 is a little more worrying as I already have him in Ebbw Vale so the other one is an unknown at present.
Trish may well have found Elizabeth for me.
I see that you are in Canada. My father emigrated there in 1929 but had lost a thumb some years before and after working on a farm for 6 months the stump became aggravated. After visiting a doctor he was told that he would have to return to Wales and to ensure this he was locked up tomessage=Hi Debbie Ann,
Thanks you so much for your time and effort on my behalf.
I think that you may have found Edwin in the 1881 census although I wonder why he was using the name Jones. The 1871 is a little more worrying as I already have him in Ebbw Vale so the other one is an unknown at present.
Trish may well have found Elizabeth for me.
I see that you are in Canada. My father emigrated there in 1929 but had lost a thumb some years before and after working on a farm for 6 months the stump became aggravated. After visiting a doctor he was told that he would have to return to Wales and to ensure this he was locked up to await the ship departure. Nearly could have been Canadian !.
Thanks again and all best wishes, Roy

[DebbieAnn]

Well, after reading your message, I went back to 1881 and found THIS Edwin Jones, a coal miner as in 1891:

Edwin Jones
Age in 1881: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Relationship to head-of-household: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Abersychan, Monmouth, Wales
Address: Rising Sun Rising Sun Inn
Civil parish: Trevethin
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Condition as to marriage: Unknown
Occupation: Coal Miner

Source information: RG11/5253
Registration district: Pontypool
Sub-registration district: Pontypool
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Folio: 54
Page: 13

What is the source info for the 1871 that you have? Now I'm REALLY INTO it!!!

Debbie

[royston]

Hi Debbie,
Sorry, I must be cracking in my old age. The Edward Willett you have in 1871 is the same as the one that I have, so there is no difficulty there. He was named Edward but seemed to prefer being known as Edwin.
So following your further search of the 1891 census that eliminated the Edwin Jones, mine still seems to be absent on the 1881.
The strange thing regarding their absence on the 1901 is that I know that they were in Rotherham in 1901 (maybe Edward/Edwin excepted) as I have a certificate of birth for their son , Francis Thomas, who was bomessage=Hi Debbie,
Sorry, I must be cracking in my old age. The Edward Willett you have in 1871 is the same as the one that I have, so there is no difficulty there. He was named Edward but seemed to prefer being known as Edwin.
So following your further search of the 1891 census that eliminated the Edwin Jones, mine still seems to be absent on the 1881.
The strange thing regarding their absence on the 1901 is that I know that they were in Rotherham in 1901 (maybe Edward/Edwin excepted) as I have a certificate of birth for their son , Francis Thomas, who was born in 1887. This certificate being one required to work and dated 1903.Also my Grandmother, Edith Sophia, was married in Rotherham in 1902.
Sorry for the confusion on the 1871 census.
Best wishes, Roy