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Wayne Cook
04-06-2014, 11:23 AM
All help appreciated. He was a blacksmith and married Sarah Nicholls in England. English Census records provide Roscommon as his place of birth and he died in Australia in 1882 aged 69

christanel
04-06-2014, 10:23 PM
Hello Wayne

I have just been doing some general searching to get an idea of this man. He died in Dungog NSW? There was also a Daniel Justyn Bruyn who took his own life in Dungog in 1912. There are coroner's inquest register records for both these men.
Daniel Justyn Bruyn was apparently born in France, son of Daniel and Sarah and very involved with the Dungog community.

OK so that is a little background for us to work from.

Added: Travelled to Australia on the 1 May 1856
Ship - Commodore Perry
Origin Location - Farbane, County Offaly a.k.a. Kings, Ireland
Daniel 43, Roscommon, Sarah 49 Staffordshire, Margaret 18 Warwickshire, Ellen 16 Staffs, Elizabeth 14 Staffordshire, Daniel 9, Graville? Havre Seine France, Sarah M 6 Staffordshire.

Plus two other children Joseph 1835 and Esther 1840, both born Staffordshire.


Christina

christanel
05-06-2014, 5:20 AM
On the shipping record Daniel says his parents were Edward and Margaret Bruyn both deceased.
Sarah's parents Joseph, deceased, mother Anne living at Smethwick.

I have spent quite a while looking for records for Daniel Bruyn (and various other spellings) but can find nothing other than what you probably already have. Plenty for Dungog in the newspapers.
The only other clue to his origins is the shipping record that says he was born Killaquin (meant to be Killukin?) Roscommon, Ireland.

I am presuming that he and Sarah were married in Staffordshire as she always states her place of birth as Smethwick Staffordshire and the earliest children's births I can find are in Staffordshire.

I have looked at the parish of Smethwick on Genuki. There appears to be only one church that was in Smethwick early enough to be the church for a marriage but the family are all recorded as RC on the shipping record so theymay have married elsewhere.

I can't find an Edward or Margaret Bruyn as yet.

christanel
05-06-2014, 5:32 AM
On familysearch

Edwd Bruin
Tax Assessment - 1825
Town Graffoge Parish - Bumlin Roscommon
GS Film number: 256576
Digital Folder Number: 004587409

Bumlin is about 25 klm from Killukin

And this

Ed Bruen
Tax Assessment 1833
Town Great Meadow And Fryars Park Parish -Boyle. Roscommon

You can view the original image on familysearch.org

Wayne Cook
05-06-2014, 11:55 AM
Thanks yes that is the family. The lived in France and I am told they escaped at the beginning of the second Industrial Revolution. I have the birth in 1845 and Death 1846 records for Mary Bruyn and the Birth of Daniel Justin Bruyn in 1847 all in Graville. These are the only records I have seen with Daniel and Sarah's middle names.

Wayne Cook
05-06-2014, 11:59 AM
Joseph Bruyn is actually Joseph Nicholls and he married as Nicholls. It was only after him, his wife and children arrived in Australia their surname was Bruyn and not Nicholls.

Wayne Cook
05-06-2014, 12:01 PM
They arrived on the Daphney

Wayne Cook
05-06-2014, 12:33 PM
Yes Daniel and Sarah were married in England and I am told her mother is Anne King

christanel
05-06-2014, 9:37 PM
Joseph Bruyn is actually Joseph Nicholls and he married as Nicholls. It was only after him, his wife and children arrived in Australia their surname was Bruyn and not Nicholls.

It's early in the morning and you have lost me with this one Wayne. :smile5:

Are you saying that Daniel Joseph Bruyn born 1805 Roscommon Ireland was actually a Joseph Nicholls who married a Sarah Nicholls in England, then before leaving England he changed his name to Bruyn and was named on the ship's manifest as Bruyn?

The children of Daniel and Sarah were registered as Bruyn


Births Dec 1/4 1839
Ellen Bruyn Kings Norton 18/382

Births Dec 1/4 1841
Elizabeth Ann Bruyn Kings Norton 18/392

Births Mar 1/4 1850
Sarah Malvina Bruyn Kings Norton 18/425

I'll wait for you to get back to me to do any more.

Christina

christanel
05-06-2014, 9:41 PM
They arrived on the Daphney

This is the shipping record I found on ancestry, so where did the record for travelling to OZ on the Daphney come from?

Travelled to Australia on the 1 May 1856
Ship - Commodore Perry
Origin Location - Farbane, County Offaly a.k.a. Kings, Ireland
Daniel Bruyn 43, Roscommon,
Sarah 49 Staffordshire,
Margaret 18 Warwickshire,
Ellen 16 Staffs,
Elizabeth 14 Staffordshire,
Daniel 9, Graville? Havre Seine France,
Sarah M 6 Staffordshire.

Wayne Cook
05-06-2014, 9:59 PM
It's early in the morning and you have lost me with this one Wayne. :smile5:

Are you saying that Daniel Joseph Bruyn born 1805 Roscommon Ireland was actually a Joseph Nicholls who married a Sarah Nicholls in England, then before leaving England he changed his name to Bruyn and was named on the ship's manifest as Bruyn?

The children of Daniel and Sarah were registered as Bruyn


Births Dec 1/4 1839
Ellen Bruyn Kings Norton 18/382

Births Dec 1/4 1841
Elizabeth Ann Bruyn Kings Norton 18/392

Births Mar 1/4 1850
Sarah Malvina Bruyn Kings Norton 18/425

I'll wait for you to get back to me to do any more.

Christina

No Christine, Joseph Nicholls the son of Sarah Nicholls before she married Daniel Joseph Bruyn. All records in England and even the ship records for the Daphne have him as Joseph Nicholls (the entry says Joseph Nicholls and family).

Esther and Ellen are the same person.

Wayne Cook
05-06-2014, 10:11 PM
link to the entry didn't work so here is the info

NICHOLLS Joseph aged 22 and family arrived on the Daphne in 1859 - Sydney and/or Newcastle -
Reel 2138, [4/4795]

him, his wife and 2 children were then named Bruyn and Joseph is the only one to carry on the "Bruyn" name but he is actually Joseph Nicholls.

Wayne Cook
06-06-2014, 2:10 AM
Christine,

Daniel and Sarah also had

Mary Bruyn - She was born at three o'clock in the morning of Thursday 15th May 1845 and died on Saturday 19th September 1846 at three o'clock in the afternoon, aged one year and four months. Both events happened rue Catinat, in the district of Trigauville, in Graville, where Daniel Justin was born in 1847. There is no cause of death given.

It is the French Records that record both Daniel and Sarah's middle names (the only time I have seen them anywhere).

Augustin (Austin on his dad's death certificate) Bruyn - birth registration for an Agustin (sic) Bruyn in King's Norton R.D. in the first quarter of 1854 (vol 6c, page 439) and a death registration for Augustin Bru_N in King's Norton R.D. in the last quarter of 1854 (vol 6c, page 282).

Kind Regards,

Wayne

Wayne Cook
06-06-2014, 3:25 AM
The eldest children Joseph before the marriage and Margaret after the marriage were both born in Birmingham, Warwickshire

christanel
06-06-2014, 7:06 AM
Ah now I am with you. :smile:

So any descendant of Joseph Bruyn is a Nicholls and are probably having difficulty taking their paternal line further back, whereas the descendants of the daughters of Daniel and Sarah are Bruyns but don't bear that name and are also having difficulty taking their paternal line back because we can't link Daniel to his parents who he gives as Edward and Margaret on the shipping record.

Christanel

Wayne Cook
06-06-2014, 8:19 AM
Christina yes that is it but with the birth of Joseph Nicholls 1834 in Birmingham it says father Joseph Nicholls mum Sarah Nicholls. Sarah Nicholls (his mum), her dad is Joseph Nicholls so I think it ends there on his dad's side but the Bruyn's atleast have Edward and Margaret as a lead.

Wayne Cook
06-06-2014, 10:13 PM
Daniel and Sarah may have married in Warwickshire as both Joseph Nicholls (1834) before the marriage and Margaret Bruyn (1837) after the marriage were christened at Aston Juxta, Birmingham Warwickshire.

christanel
06-06-2014, 11:52 PM
The eldest children Joseph before the marriage and Margaret after the marriage were both born in Birmingham, Warwickshire
Their births, or at least Margaret's, was registered in the Birmingham Warwickshire registration district but the 1841 census has Daniel born Ireland, with Sarah, Joseph, Margaret and Esther all born in Staffordshire county. Smethwick is very close to Birmingham.

I know it sounds a bit pedantic but it can hinder/help in searches. :smile:

I am still trying to find a marriage- without any luck - so I am obviously not doing something right, unless they never married. We have names for both sets of parents for Sarah nee Nicholls and Daniel Bruyn but nothing definite to join them up.

Christina

Wayne Cook
11-06-2014, 12:17 PM
Yeah looks like I've hit some brick walls as I can't find his birth or even his parents marriage. At times I hate Irish genealogy. My direct line of Cook goes back to Benjamin Cooke (the e was dropped when he came to Australia) a convict from Dublin and the trail ends there and previous people who have tried, were told the records were destroyed in a fire.

Wayne Cook
28-02-2016, 11:37 AM
Hi, I haven't been in here for ages but I now have a lead to look in France as in an obit I found for Ellen Bruyn in Dungog it has she lived in France for 4 years with her people who were a long established French Family

Wayne Cook
28-02-2016, 11:49 AM
I just discovered that my Bruyn line is a long Established French Family. Daniel Bruyn born Roscommon Ireland has his parents listed as Edward and Margaret. So I am thinking I need to look in France for Edward and Margaret prior to the birth of their son Daniel abt 1812.

Your help to find this family is greatly appreciated Daniel Joseph Bruyn and his wife Sarah Helen Nicholls were in France during the turbulent years of the revolution. His son Daniel Justin Bruyn was born 26 May 1847 at Graville, Le Havre, Seine, France if that helps

Lesley Robertson
28-02-2016, 2:06 PM
I have merged these two threads as we don't allow more than one thread about the same search. People get frustrated if they spend time helping on thread 2, only to find that the info has been given on thread 1.

Wayne Cook
28-02-2016, 8:06 PM
Ok but the2nd thread was looking for his parent Edward and Margaret as I have just found out that the Bruyn's were a long established French Family so they both could have been born in France and possibly even married there.

Kind Regards,

Wayne.

Lesley Robertson
28-02-2016, 8:19 PM
That was why I merged rather than simply deleting or closing the newer one. These threads tend to generate info about the whole family....

BTW Bruyn is a common name in Belgium and the Netherlands, where it has an alternative spelling of Bruijn.

Wayne Cook
28-02-2016, 8:35 PM
Thanks. I suspect my one is Bruin as I have seen it that way too in England. Mine is definately France. My family after being in England moved to Graville, Le Havre, Seine, France* so gather they had other family there too. So this area is a good starting point.

Wayne Cook
28-02-2016, 8:51 PM
https://www.british-genealogy.com/extensions/uploads/414f2770-b551-4b24-96a6-a4f1ca047c16.jpg

Wayne Cook
28-02-2016, 8:58 PM
Mrs Ben Cook mentioned in the article is my Great Grandmother Elizabeth Bruyn, Mrs Monaghan is Margaret Bruyn and Mrs Landers is Sarah Malvina Bruyn

Wayne Cook
29-02-2016, 12:45 AM
Daniel Bruyn was a Blacksmith so if he followed his families profession, then looking for Blacksmiths in France with the same/similar surname could help me find my family connection.

Does anyone know if there are any records to show if there were any Bruin/Bruyn's (and any other alternative spellings) in the Graville, Le Havre, Seine, France, area back in the late 1700's early 1800s that were also Blacksmiths?

Kind Regards,

Wayne