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limeyrr
13-03-2014, 12:29 PM
I wonder if someone may be able to point me in the right direction. My grandmother's family came from Ballitore, County Kildare, but I'm having a lot of difficulty in making any progress tracing it back. I'll give what I have and perhaps someone could point me in the right direction.

My grandmother was born to parents Andrew Doyle and Bridget Hayes in 1916. She had the following siblings:
Edward 1900
Andrew 1903
Peter 1906
Bridget 1909
Ester 1913
John 1915
and Patrick 1921
I have a copy of Andrew and Bridget's marriage certificate from 1896 in Moone, Athy that identifies Andrew's father to be Edward Doyle and Bridget's as John Hayes. The witnesses to the marriage were Patrick Doyle and Elizabeth Nolan.

So far so good. I have a copy of Andrew's death certificate from 1927 that lists his place of death as Peel Hall, Ballitore. He's shown as age 64.

My immediate hope would be that Andrew and Bridget would show up on the 1901 and 1911 census. They do show on the 1901 and are listed as follows:
1901 census:
Household Number 71 District Electoral Division: BALLITORE
Address: Ballitore Parish TIMOLIN
County Co. Kildare

Andrew Doyle Agricultural Labourer 34 Householder Roman Catholic Co. Kildare
Edward Doyle 1 Son Roman Catholic Co. Kildare
Mary Doyle 4 Daughter Roman Catholic Co. Kildare
Bridget Doyle Agricultural Labourer 26 Wife Roman Catholic Co. Kildare

But this is were I grind to an abrupt stop. I can find no listing for the family in 1911.
Based on the information given of the 1901 census and his death certificate Andrew's year of birth would be approximately 1863-1867. He identifies himself as being born in Kildare, but I can't find a Andrew Doyle in the Registration of Birth Indexes for the period of 1860-1870.

I'm sort of at a loss right now. There are numerous Andrew Doyles born in that period, how do I find the right one as none of them are from Kildare. What's my next step? I'd really like to find out more about this family, but what should I look at next to try and find the next step back?

I'm researching from Canada and haven't really dealt with Irish records before, so any advise would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,
Gerald

Elwyn Soutter
13-03-2014, 9:03 PM
Gerald,

Statutory recording of births only started in Ireland in 1864 and so if Andrew was born before 1864 you won’t find a birth cert for him. In addition, in the early years of statutory registration parents didn’t always bother to register every birth. Births in Ballitore would be registered in Baltinglass. I have searched 1864 to 1867 but there are no births of an Andrew Doyle in those years in that registration town. So either Andrew was born before 1864 or his birth wasn’t registered.

You might get his baptism though. You know he was born in Ballitore which is in the civil parish of Timolin, which is in the RC parish of Castledermot. Their RC records are on the Rootsireland site. You could search there.

Agricultural workers tended to move around a fair bit, every year or so, and so tracing them may be tricky. The revaluation records in the valuation office in Dublin should tell you when the family arrived and left Ballitore (around the time of the 1901 census).

I can see 2 Andrew Doyle births registered in Baltinglass in 1902 and 1 in 1904. Presumably one of those is your family (and will have their address).

Only 1 Peter Doyle birth in Baltinglass around the right time which was Apr – Jun 1906 Vol 2, page 377. That looks a good bet.

3 Bridgets, 2 in 1909 and 1 in 1910.

There’s an Esther Doyle in Apr – Jun 1913 Vol 2, page 363 followed by Mary Esther Doyle Apr – Jun 1913 Vol 2, page 365. (I suspect these may both relate to the same birth).

6 Johns c 1915. 14 Patricks c 1921.

I’d probably obtain Peter & Esther’s birth certs to see where the family were then and then check the 1911 census and the revaluation records to see where they were in 1911. There are several possibilities: 1. They were not in Ireland (family had gone to England or Scotland for work). 2. They were in the area but name has been mistranscribed in census, or given in Irish. 3. They were missed on census night for some reason. (They are not in Ballitore on census night):

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Kildare/Ballitore/Ballitore/


You can order a photocopy of the birth certificates from GRO Roscommon for €4. http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Apply-for-Certificates.aspx

You have to download and print off the form. Then either post or fax it back to them. You can’t e-mail it to them. However if you want them to e-mail the cert to back to you, they will do that, so tick the relevant box.

Put the reference details on the form (anywhere). Don’t worry about leaving some boxes blank. As long as GRO have the location, name(s), year, quarter (where there is one), volume and page number they should find it.

limeyrr
14-03-2014, 3:26 PM
Elwyn,
Thank you for your recommendations. I was also unaware that the civil registration started in 1864, I guess I did the bad thing and assumed it started like in England in 1837. Oops.

Your advice for getting the family's location around 1911 is sound and might be the best way for me to find the family on the census if they were enumerated.

I shall also have to look into the revaluation records you mention, as these are completely new to me.

Thanks again for your advice,

Gerald

Elwyn Soutter
14-03-2014, 4:20 PM
Gerald,

The revaluation records are the extension of Griffiths Primary Valuation. The Griffiths clerks revisited every property every 2 or 3 years and noted any changes (as to tenant, landlord, size and quality of the property etc). They put the information in revaluation books which run through from the Primary Valuation (1848 – 1864) to 1929. The books for the 6 counties in Northern Ireland are now on-line, and will give you an idea of what to expect. Those for the Republic of Ireland are held in the Valuation office in Dublin. If you e-mail them they may help you and look them up. (Don’t know whether there will be a fee). But from them you can tell when someone arrived and left a property, allowing for a little error factor. Some dates are clearly out by a year or so, but in general they are not bad.

Dublin Valuation Office: http://www.valoff.ie


On-line Valuation book for Northern Ireland:

http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/search_the_archives/val12b.htm

limeyrr
14-03-2014, 7:32 PM
Elwyn,
I took a look at the Griffiths Valuation on Ancestry for Ballitore and there is an Edward Doyle listed who might be the father of my Andrew Doyle. The only other Doyle mentioned in Ballitore is a John Doyle. There is also an Edward Doyle listed in Moone, which is not too far away. So it appears my family might have been in the area for a while.

Gerald

Elwyn Soutter
14-03-2014, 8:55 PM
Gerald,

I am sure that Andrew Doyle’s family came from that general area. Whether the house in Griffiths you have found is the one his father occupied is debatable. However the revaluation records should tell you. The Griffiths entry was a house (with no outbuildings or land) on plot 68. The revaluation records use the same plot numbers, so when you contact the Valuation office you’ll be interested to know whether Andrew’s house was also plot 68. (If it is, and it passed from Edward to Andrew, then they are probably father and son). If it isn’t, ask them to look at plot 68 and note when Edward left, and who replaced him.

The reason I am hesitant is because of Andrew's occupation (agricultural labourer). Ag labs were usually on short leases, typically a year or sometimes “at will” (ie no notice required) so that they were free to follow the available work. Not a good idea to have signed a 10 year lease if you end up working on farm 15 miles away. They often moved home every couple of years. Doyle is a common name in that county and so the Edward in the same townland might just be a coincidence.

By the way you should ignore the house numbers in the 2 censuses. There were no house numbers in rural areas in the early 1900s and so those numbers were just the enumerators private numbering system (which varied from census to census) and have no bearing on Griffiths plot numbers nor on any house number the property might have today.