PDA

View Full Version : Can ANYONE help solve my puzzle?



JackieG
19-08-2005, 2:20 PM
Hi everyone,
I am looking for my great grandmother Florence Eliza Fisher. It is said that she was French, but I have come up with no evidence of this at all.

The information that I do have is that she was married at All Saints church, Fulham on Dec. 3rd 1892 to George Cheshire. Her age is given as 20 however this could have been 26 and her address 4 Elysium Cottages, Fulham. The same address that George gave. Her father is a labourer and is also called George.

I have also found her on the 1901 still living in Fulham. However she is down as Flora Cheshire. I can confirm that this is the correct person as although my grandmother wasn't born until 1906, the address on her birth cert. matches this one 36 Star Rd, Fulham and the siblings already born match those my father remembers. Her age given here is 34 and George's 36 with her birthplace as Cambs.

The puzzling thing is that I cannot find ANY other records before this. So many people have tried to help me with census searches but no luck and also there is no record of her birth.

Can ANYONE shed any light on this for me? I had resolved myself to give up, but I thought I would give it one more go!

Thanks for taking the time to read this!

jeeb
19-08-2005, 4:09 PM
Hi Jackie
1871 Census RG10/1610 Folio 8 Page 7
March Cambs.
Post Office, High Street
Howard Fisher, Head, 42 Grocer & draper Born Doddington Cambs
Susannah Fisher, Wife 43 Born March, Cambs
Stokely Fisher Son 17
Sarah E Dau 15
Susannah Dau 13
Emily J. Dau 6
Florence E Dau 4 (All children born Wimblington, Cambs)

!881 Census RG11?1690 Folio 10 Page 13
67 High Street Wimblington Cambs
Susannah Fisher Head Wid 52 Grocer & draper Born March
Stokely, Son Unm 27 Grocer & Draper Born Wimblington
Sarah E Dau Unm 25 Governess Teacher Born Wimblington
Susannah Dau Unm. 23 Draper Born Wimblington
Florence E. Dau 14 Scholar Born Wimblington

I think this is the family you are looking for. Not French, I don't think?
Cheers Jeremy.

JackieG
19-08-2005, 4:26 PM
Hi Jeremy,

I have also come up with this one, but the father's name is Howard, not George. The profession is also different which makes me feel that this isn't my Fisher family.

I know that people used to use thier second name in many cases, but this Howard only had the one forename.

Any other ideas?

Many thanks for your help! Jackie

jeeb
19-08-2005, 4:40 PM
Hi Jackie
I know you will say Florence's father was not Howard. You will be right. Howard Fisher is registered dead at North Witchford December quarter 1872 aged 44. (This is the reg. district for March & Wimblington) Therefore he is not the father of Emily or Florence. I assume they are probably illegitamate children of Susannah Fisher, a then widow and George (Unknown)
Susannah is still a widow in 1891 living at Wimblington with Stokely, Sarah & Susannah, all still single. There is however a niece with them called Minnie Wigginton aged 21 born Croydon
Cheers Jeremy

Mythology
19-08-2005, 4:45 PM
:confused: :confused:

I am not sure how you arrived at that conclusion when both of them are on the 1871 census with Howard, the year *before* he died.

get2BJ
19-08-2005, 5:03 PM
Hello Jackie,

does your Florence have any siblings of her own that you are aware of? Did she have any employment before marrying?

Brenda

jeeb
19-08-2005, 5:09 PM
Hi Mythology,
Oops! My mistake, I have mixed the 1871 & 1881 censuses up. I still think it is probably the right family though. Florence would not have known her father very well and there is a large gap between the the last 2 children and the rest. Father ill in hospital and 'Uncle George' came calling? Sorry I have a suspicious mind. She married a George too, maybe a possible error on the certificate?
Jeremy

JackieG
19-08-2005, 7:37 PM
Hi All,

Firstly thank you all so much for trying to help me, I really do appreciate it!

I'm not sure what I think about your theory Jeremy. I have thought about many different reasons as to why I can't find Florence and this wasn't one of them. Why would she not have been on the 1891 anywhere?

Florence hasn't a profession stated on the marriage certificate and I don't know of any other siblings.

It all seems such a mystery to me! If the French connection was to have any truth in it, maybe she was a Fischer and dropped the "C" when in England. Really clutching at straws here, but your mind runs in all different directions when you have no solid evidence.

Any more ideas would be greatly received!

Many thanks, Regards, Jackie

Geoffers
19-08-2005, 8:37 PM
I am looking for my great grandmother Florence Eliza Fisher. It is said that she was French, but I have come up with no evidence of this at all.............I have also found her on the 1901 still living in Fulham.
Doesn't the 1901 census show her birthplace?


It all seems such a mystery to me! If the French connection was to have any truth in it, maybe she was a Fischer and dropped the "C"
Or possibly she (or her father/grandfather) was born a PEYCHER(S) and anglicized this when the emigrated to England? Someone of this name several years ago told me that it was a French name and meant 'fisher'.

Geoffers

Mythology
19-08-2005, 8:42 PM
"Doesn't the 1901 census show her birthplace?"

It's shown as Cambridge, Geoffers, and the only likely one that I could see using the Cambridge Local BMD rather than FreeBMD, which is incomplete, was a plain Florence in 1868 who, on further investigation, fell over aged zero, so that rules her out!

(Edit)
Jeremy's one is 1866 Sep Q, on FreeBMD - with a North Witchford ref., of course, not Cambridge!

JackieG
19-08-2005, 10:15 PM
Hi,

To clarify, the census birthplace on 1901 is given as Cambs, Cambridge. I incorrectly stated earlier that she was down as Flora, but checking my records she is down as Florence. I have her as Flora on army records of her husband George in ww1. Sorry!

There is no profession and her employment status is undefined.

This is a brilliant site and you are all being so helpful. Thank you!

Regards, Jackie

Geoffers
20-08-2005, 2:40 PM
Difficulty in locating someone can arise for several reasons, in this case it's possible that Florence had another forename under which she was registered in the GRO index (if she was registered) and is shown in earlier census returns.

It is possible that her father, George had died prior to 1892 but the marriage certificate does not indicate this (it does happen). Maybe she was brought up by family.

However, with her age at marriage of 20 (birth year approx 1872) or 26 (born about 1866) there seem to be only two possibilities from the 1881 census; one of which you have. The second is:

continued....

Geoffers
20-08-2005, 2:41 PM
RG11/1695 f123 p14
6, Marshland Road, Wisbech St.Peter
George FISHER, hd, mar, 32, Painter & Glazier, bn Wisbech
Jane Fisher, wf, mar, 33, bn Wisbech
Ellen Fisher, dau, 10, bn Middlesbro
Flora FISHER, dau, 6, bn Wisbech
Lizzie Fisher, dau, 4, bn Wisbech.

The father's occupation is different - oaky he may have fallen on hard times and become a labourer. Florence has become Flora, I've encountered this change before now and you mention that she is later shown as Flora. The age is not quite right, I've found variation in ages on many occasions. Birthplace is different - she moves to London and is asked where she was born, back comes the reply in a fairly broad accent "Wisbech"
"What county is that in?"
"Cambridge" and so she is shown as born in Cambridge.

continued........

Geoffers
20-08-2005, 2:42 PM
It may be the wrong entry, you will need to work on this, but the great majority of Cambridgeshire Fisher birthplaces in the 1881 census are around the north of the county, Wimblington, Doddington, March - that sort of area. I'd suggest basing your efforts on looking around there and trying to prove that the above census isn't correct.

Are any of the witnesses to her marriage relatives?

Geoffers

JackieG
20-08-2005, 3:24 PM
Unfortunately not geoffers, one is a James Driver and the other Florence Godfrey. I have in the past tried to search for these people to see if it would give me any more clues, but could come up with nothing there either.

Her husband's father, who is also George is down as deceased on the marriage certificate. He was a bricklayer and so was her husband. On the 1891 George junior was living at 4 Elysium Cottages with his mother Elizabeth. George senior had already died at this point.

Thanks for all your help Geoffers! If you or anybody else comes up with anything else I'd be very grateful.

Many thanks, Jackie

JackieG
25-08-2005, 5:35 PM
Hello All,

Can anyone find a death record for Florence? I'm even having difficulty finding that!

She would obviously be Florence/Flora or Florence Eliza Cheshire at time of death. She was in the Fulham area and I would estimate that she died between 1916 and 1926. This is only a rough estimation as I think she died when my Grandmother was about 13 who was born in 1906.

Any help would be much appreciated!!!
Thank you, Jackie

JackieG
30-08-2005, 12:44 PM
Hi Everyone,

I have come across a death entry for Florence who died in Fulham 1915 aged 41!

If this is the correct Florence which I feel sure it is, (death registered as Flora), this means she was born in 1874/5. All the ages given ie. on her marriage cert. and 1901 census make her born at different times! How confusing!

Going by the death cert. I have come across a Florence E Fisher on the 1881 living in Market Deeping with her parents, father George, but he is a baker, not a labourer!

Can anyone come up with anything else for this year of birth?

Any help much appreciated!!

Ron Leech
31-08-2005, 7:59 AM
[QUOTE=JackieG]If this is the correct Florence which I feel sure it is, (death registered as Flora), this means she was born in 1874/5. All the ages given ie. on her marriage cert. and 1901 census make her born at different times! How confusing!QUOTE]


I don't want to be a prophet of doom but the age at death is dependant upon the accuracy of the information given by the person reporting the death. So it may be no more accurate than the dates you already have.

JackieG
31-08-2005, 12:07 PM
Yes Ron, you are so right, but would there be a reason for lying about an age at death? I can understand it for a marriage, if the bride was not old enough to marry or if her husband to be was alot older than her, but why on a death cert?

Don't think I'll ever get to the bottom of this one!

Regards, Jackie

mary elms
31-08-2005, 12:13 PM
Yes Ron, you are so right, but would there be a reason for lying about an age at death? Not for lying, Jackie, but people don't always know each other's ages acurately. Someone answering a question to the best of their knowledge might easily get it wrong.

My sister recently caused my mother great amusement by asking where all the birth certificates were kept "so I can find them when I have to register your deaths" Fortunately they're very alike and my mother understood completely!

Mary.

Ron Leech
31-08-2005, 12:15 PM
would there be a reason for lying about an age at death?

Who ever reported the death may not have known the correct age, for a variety of reasons. Among which it is possible the lady lied at marriage if she was older than she wanted to be known. Did not know herself, after all it is only at marriage, census or death that the question is raised.

The good news is that you have a spread of dates to work around.