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lucyweir
14-07-2013, 12:59 PM
Hello,
I'm so frustrated. I've been searching for two days to try and find a great-great-great grandfather, to no avail. I know he was born in Paris, I first found him on the English 1971 census Leon Schutte. I have found a record of a Leon Jacob Schutt without the E who was born in Paris. I have a feeling this is him because theres a death of a Leon Jacob Schutte in Surrey, where one of his daughters married. I'm finding it hard to find which department in Paris he was born. I really wanted to find his marriage to a Marie/Maria Louisa. I would like to know her maiden name but I just can't seem to find any Marriage records between a Schutt/Schutte anywhere in Paris or France for that matter. I would really really appreciate some help or advice please. Thank you for your time.

helachau
14-07-2013, 6:17 PM
A very warm welcome to Brit- gen.
The 1871 Census tells us that Leon's daughter Leonide, age 20, was born Lancashire - about 1851.

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

This is a searchable site of birth, marriage and death certificates and I found the following birth -
Leonade Marie Louise Schutte, March Qtr 1851, West Derby, 20 1088

This information allows you to send for the birth certificate (there is a charge of £9.25) which should include Leonade's mother's name before marriage.

Is Leonade "your" Leon's daughter?

helachau
14-07-2013, 6:39 PM
1851 Census (ref Ho107 2190 170 3)
Mary Shute, married, age 37, born France
Adelaide Shute, age 11, born France
Maria L Shute, age 1mth, born Liverpool
They are lodging at Wilmot Street, Liverpool

Re Place of Birth, it has been trancribed as "Bolsover, France" for Mary and Adelaide but looking at the original it is "Bologne".

Do you have access to the Census to confirm?

lucyweir
14-07-2013, 7:06 PM
Thank you so much for this. This has helped me massively. It adds up with the information that I have found so far. Interesting the name change but It is common in old records. I will carry on with my research with the new information. Thank you again.

helachau
14-07-2013, 7:38 PM
1861 Census (ref RG09 61 100 15) - SCHUTTE
Leon age 42, cook; Marie Louies age 43; Adela age 21; Leonide age 10 - address 45, Berwick St, St James, Westminster

Leon and Marie born France, Adela born Belgium and Leonide born Liverpool.

Also listed is
Mary Winchester, Dau, Unm, age 17, Bookbinder, born London

Have checked the original entry and it is clearly "Dau" in the column headed "Relation to Head of Household".

lucyweir
14-07-2013, 8:18 PM
I have seen this. It is interesting. I'm aware that area was a workhouse, maybe they lived there together, i'm not too sure. I think I will now find it difficult finding Adelaide's birth record in Boulogne. On some censuses it is France and others it is Belgium. Very confusing. No evidence of Leon SCHUTTE/SHUTE/SCHUTT living in England around Leonide/Mary L's birth. I'm going to find it hard researching all this!. Thank you for you help, you're fantastic.

pottoka
14-07-2013, 11:36 PM
The death registration of Léon Jacob Schutte gives a birth date around 1817.

If he was born in one of the twenty arrondissements of Paris, this would mean that his birth certificate may well have been destroyed in the fire of May 1871 when 8 million records were burned. Of these, only a third have been reconstituted, by people going to the Town Hall to say who they were, when they were born, etc. As Léon was in England before the fire, he wouldn't have been one of those Parisians to be able to pop down to the Town Hall to get his papers re-done.

It is also possible that he wasn't actually born in Paris itself, but gave the name - as many foreigners seem to have done - as being the biggest local town to his actual birth-place and thus one which the enumerator might recognise. Then, unfortunately, you are faced with a needle-in-a-haystack problem, as each child's birth was registered in the Town Hall of the place where they were born, and there are hundreds of little places around Paris which could fit the bill.

I'm sorry to sound so depressing :sad:

pottoka
15-07-2013, 12:10 AM
Better news in this post (which won't teach me to shoot my mouth off first, but there we are).

Léon Jacob Schutte did get his birth certificate reconstituted (unfortunately, it's a very short & simple document compared with a real one, but it's a darn sight better than nothing!). He was born on 7th April 1815 in the 1st arrondissement of Paris, without an 'e', so Schutt.

I can't get a link to take you straight to the record, so you'll have to go the hard way, I'm afraid.

Put http://canadp-archivesenligne.paris.fr/ in your search engine and you should get the page for the online Paris Archives. On the right, There are three boxes, the top one being "État civil de Paris". Click on the small blue » Consulter l'état civil de Paris in the bottom right hand corner of the box.

On the new page, go to the bottom half called État civil reconstitué (XVIe siècle - 1859) and click on » accédez aux fichiers alphabétiques.

On the page which comes up, choose "acte de naissance" from the drop-down menu for 'type d'acte', then type in Schutt for 'Nom de la personne recherchée'. Click on 'Rechercher' and you will get a page of records from Schuster to Schutz and an eye which you click on to visualise the records. Léon's record is n° 18, and you can then print it out.

There are a couple of other Schutts, born in the 50s, but no names which correspond to those on the Censuses wirth Léon.

pottoka
15-07-2013, 12:15 AM
Better news in this post (which won't teach me to shoot my mouth off first, but there we are).

Léon Jacob Schutte did get his birth certificate reconstituted (unfortunately, it's a very short & simple document compared with a real one, but it's a darn sight better than nothing!). He was born on 7th April 1815 in the 1st arrondissement of Paris, without an 'e', so Schutt.

I can't get a link to take you straight to the record, so you'll have to go the hard way, I'm afraid.

Put http://canadp-archivesenligne.paris.fr/ in your search engine and you should get the page for the online Paris Archives. On the right, There are three boxes, the top one being "État civil de Paris". Click on the small blue » Consulter l'état civil de Paris in the bottom right hand corner of the box.

On the new page, go to the bottom half called État civil reconstitué (XVIe siècle - 1859) and click on » accédez aux fichiers alphabétiques.

On the page which comes up, choose "acte de naissance" from the drop-down menu for 'type d'acte', then type in Schutt for 'Nom de la personne recherchée'. Click on 'Rechercher' and you will get a page of records from Schuster to Schutz and an eye which you click on to visualise the records. Léon's record is n° 18, and you can then print it out.

There are a couple of other Schutts, born in the 50s, but no names which correspond to those on the Censuses with Léon.

pottoka
15-07-2013, 12:47 AM
I looked to see if there was a marriage for Léon. You can either click on 'Nouvelle Recherche' on the page with the eye, which takes you back to the page before with the drop down menu and the name to put in, or go through from the beginning.

Two pages come up: Schmid to Scmidt and Schuster to Schutz. This second one seemed more likely, so I tried that and, while I didn't find a marriage for Léon, I found a marriage in the 1st arrondissement on 13th June 1814 between Joachim Jacques Schutt and Susanne Sophie Manneville. Obviously there's nothing to prove conclusively that they are Léon's parents, but I feel it seems quite likely. It's image n° 20.

The Schmid to Scmidt are of no use, being nearly all Schmidts and variations of, with a mistranscrption at the Scmidt end.

I hope I haven't upset you in any way by talking you through the Archives as if you don't know a word of French; you could be a Professor of French at Oxford ... |doh|

lucyweir
15-07-2013, 11:10 AM
Thank you. You're brilliant. This is great news. I have e-mailed paris archives about Leon. With this new info, i'll try and look harder. Interesting about his possible parents, great lead for me. My French is awful, I would of probably got further by now if I knew some basics!. Thank you ever so much for your help!!! :-)