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View Full Version : Dominique Vedere - s. of Antoine born France



Colin Rowledge
15-08-2012, 7:34 PM
Back on 12 July 2010, I started a thread on the Cornwall county wide forum entitled Elizabeth Vedere - married 1872. That thread answered my questions about Elizabeth and the effect of her running away with Dominique before she was 16 years of age had upon her father.

There are some references to Dominique in that thread, but none pin-point a starting point of how to find out what happened to him after ditching Elizabeth, or of his life prior to the unfortunate [for the Lugg family anyway] marriage.

I have tried to find him by googling French ancestry sites, but not understanding the language, I've drawn blanks. This is why I am asking for help from forum members either in France or those more conversant with the language.

All I know is what was on his marriage certificate dated 24 July 1856. He stated he was of full age, a bachelor, an Artist by occupation and that his father was Antoine Vedere. They were married by license.

Colin

pottoka
15-08-2012, 7:39 PM
All I know is what was on his marriage certificate dated 24 July 1856. He stated he was of full age, a bachelor, an Artist by occupation and that his father was Antoine Vedere. They were married by license.

Colin

You say that that is all you know, Colin, but did he stay with Elizabeth long enough to be on a Census?

Colin Rowledge
15-08-2012, 7:47 PM
You say that that is all you know, Colin, but did he stay with Elizabeth long enough to be on a Census?

No, Pottoka, he desrted her before the 1861 census and she was back with her mother in 1861 in St.Keverne. Her father in 1861 was in the Asylum - he never left it and died in 1872 on 27 January.

pottoka
15-08-2012, 8:02 PM
Quel salaud! These Frenchmen, I ask you! (I'm allowed to say that cos I'm hitched to one :lol:) Mind you, he could have been a Belgian, couldn't he - remember Hercule Poirot is always having to correct people who presume he's French.

I digress. Exactly what proof do you have that he's French?

I'm afraid you may well be up against an insurmountable brick wall here. There is no centralised register of BMDs for France. You have to know exactly where someone was born to be able to get a copy of their birth certificate, as each birth was registered at the Town Hall of the city/town/village/hamlet where it took place. Now you can get them from the Archives Départementales (like the County Record Offices in England), but if you don't know where to look, you're stuck.

Sorry.|hug|

Colin Rowledge
15-08-2012, 8:19 PM
Exactly what proof do you have that he's French?

I'm afraid you may well be up against an insurmountable brick wall here. There is no centralised register of BMDs for France. You have to know exactly where someone was born to be able to get a copy of their birth certificate, as each birth was registered at the Town Hall of the city/town/village/hamlet where it took place. Now you can get them from the Archives Départementales (like the County Record Offices in England), but if you don't know where to look, you're stuck.

Sorry.|hug|

No real proof- just the 'accents' on the marriage certificate. Of course, he could be Belgian or even French Canadian.

Dead end - looks like.

Thanks anyway - it was worth a try. His name and a tiny bit about him is now on the forums and elsewhere - may be someone, somewhere recognizes him - I can only hope.

Colin

pottoka
15-08-2012, 8:39 PM
It's a bummer, Colin.

The thing is that French records, say a birth record, will usually give you the full names, ages, occupations and birth places, and sometimes even the marriage date and/or place of the parents, so it's fairly easy to trace a line upwards. It's when you get a British family working in France for a few years, while they're having kids, or a French person who gives a place of birth on a Census which turns out to be - probably - the nearest big town to Back-End-in-the-Sticks where he was actually born that things go wrong.

I can't find the toerag either on the 1851 or the 1861 Census.

You're probably better off without him, even if it leaves you with a loose end; he sounds like a right nasty piece of work.

Colin Rowledge
16-08-2012, 6:17 PM
Still searching - a search today on google has found a French artist and photo. What dosen't help is that this person is alive, is French and unfortunately [for me] female.

Definitely not the person I am looking for.

Colin

Colin Rowledge
17-08-2012, 5:18 PM
It's a bummer, Colin.

You're probably better off without him, even if it leaves you with a loose end; he sounds like a right nasty piece of work.

I agree - but loose ends aren't acceptable - at least, not at present.

It did strike me that maybe he was recruiting for prostitution, but to go to the lengths he did, seems unlikely if you consider how 'pimps' operate today.

Colin

helachau
18-08-2012, 4:56 PM
The Bearnais Singers (from the French Pyrenees) were touring here 1852 - 1857, and gave their farewell concert in Oct 1857 before returning to France. The group included a "D. Vedere, Baritone, of the Toulouse Conservatory".

pottoka
21-08-2012, 6:41 AM
I agree - but loose ends aren't acceptable - at least, not at present.

It did strike me that maybe he was recruiting for prostitution, but to go to the lengths he did, seems unlikely if you consider how 'pimps' operate today.

Colin

Oh, Colin!

I don't know what to say to you except surely not. Oh, I don't know, there were white slavers and all sorts, but I don't think he'd have married her, would he?

Sometimes I think that we have too much information too easily these days as well as media who squeeze blood from stones, and so we always think of the worst possible scenarios.


The Bearnais Singers (from the French Pyrenees) were touring here 1852 - 1857, and gave their farewell concert in Oct 1857 before returning to France. The group included a "D. Vedere, Baritone, of the Toulouse Conservatory".

Now that is interesting, as I looked up the surname on a French genealogical site, and a lot came from up North but there was another high concentration in the Pyrénées-Atlantiques (once the Basses Pyrénées before they got PC about it - before PC existed!) and the Hautes Pyrénées. The Béarn is in th P.A.

pottoka
21-08-2012, 6:47 AM
Colin, you mentioned accents on the marriage certificate. Were they acute accents - é - or grave accents - è - or possibly both, as in Védère, Vèdère, Védéré ... Were there any circumflexes - ê - perhaps?

And what was Antoine's occupation?

Colin Rowledge
21-08-2012, 2:10 PM
Colin, you mentioned accents on the marriage certificate. Were they acute accents - é - or grave accents - è - or possibly both, as in Védère, Vèdère, Védéré ... Were there any circumflexes - ê - perhaps?

And what was Antoine's occupation?

Having had a much closer look at this certificate, the accents seem to indicate both types as indicated in the bold name in the quote box. But and it is a big but, there are no accents at all in the name of the father - so could these just be marks on my copy that was sent from the GRO?

Dominique stated his occupation as Artist. Somehow I think, the performer in a touring company of singers would indicate his occupation, possibly as a Singer or as an Artiste to differentiate between the 2.

As for the father Antoine, he is not indicated as deceased. His occupation is listed, but it is awfully difficult to read and may even be what Dominique said - in French - and written accordingly. I don't have a scanner so cannot upload a copy to the forum.

Pretty useless aren't I?

Colin

helachau
22-08-2012, 9:00 AM
Artist? Artiste?

mmmmmm?

pottoka
22-08-2012, 7:22 PM
I don't have a scanner so cannot upload a copy to the forum.

Pretty useless aren't I?

Colin

NO! |hug|

Don't talk rubbish ... if I had to use the family PC to come on to B-G, I'd never be around! It works more slowly than a sloth, and I just can't take it (my phlegmatic husband takes it in his stride). But we can't afford to buy a new one.

pottoka
22-08-2012, 7:46 PM
Still searching - a search today on google has found a French artist and photo. What dosen't help is that this person is alive, is French and unfortunately [for me] female.

Definitely not the person I am looking for.

Colin

Yes, there are some first names in French which can be given to a boy or a girl; well, same in English, I suppose, I knew a (male) Hilary at school, and there must be others.

Dominique is a very common one, or there's Claude, Camille, Stéphane - and others further back in history: Anne de Montmorency was a soldier, statesman, diplomat and Marshal of France (1493-1567)!