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welshman247
03-03-2010, 10:42 PM
Hi,

I was wondering if someone could help me. I'm trying to research my family history... my great great great grandfather was born in Sweden. Any help is much appreciated!

Name: Alfred Elsen
Born: abt 1857

Is there any way to check immigration etc? I know he settled in Bristol, and his father was called John Elsen (according to marriage details). I have no idea where in Sweden he was from. He married in 1879 in Bristol to Mary Emma Bryant. I assume he therefore came to Britain before then, he is in the 1881 Census (occupation Engine Fitter), but not in the 1871 census (that I can find) ... so possibly came to Britain between 1871 and 1879?

Any help or advice on how I can go about finding this out would be very much appreciated!

Cheers,

Jon

Geoffers
04-03-2010, 7:41 AM
Welcome to the B-G forums

The Aliens entry books have been recently made available on a pay-per-view site, have a look at this news item on TNA's web-site (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/news/437.htm)

welshman247
04-03-2010, 6:53 PM
More information! Although he had a Wife and Son in Bristol, he was a Mariner and was away a lot. He lived a lot of the time in America between 1900 and 1930 in New Jersey. He lived with family from his mothers side, his nephew and uncle Anderson. (obviously means that his mother's maiden name is Anderson). They seem to have come from Gothenberg in Sweden, possibly Backa in Gothenberg (that's the andersons though, i'm assuming he was near by when he was living in Sweden...)

I've had a look at the Alien entry books and didn't find anything btw... that was the first place I looked. Perhaps I should try variations on the surname, although I think I covered that!

Oh also, he had a Son Frederick William Bryant Elsen who lived in USA also later on. He serves in the Canadian Expeditionary Force in 1917-1919...

Now then... How do I go about tracing him back into Sweden?

Cheers,

Jon

Procat
05-03-2010, 11:21 PM
Hi Jon,

I have given your posts a thread and title of their own. They may attract more attention that way.

Nicolina
06-03-2010, 12:05 AM
are you certain that he was born in Sweden?
The 1861 Census has:

RG09/239/60 Page 2
5, Great Chart Street, St Leonard Shoreditch
John ELSEN aged 35 b. Saint Luke's, Middlesex occ: Greengrocer
Mary ELSEN aged 33 b. Benhall Green, Middlesex
Mary Ann ELSEN aged 7 b. Shoreditch, Middlesex
Alfred ELSEN aged 2 b. Shoreditch, Middlesex

the 1861 & 1881 Censuses are the only ones he appears on.

welshman247
06-03-2010, 11:08 PM
That can't be them, that'd make his d.o.b 1859 which is too late. It's definitely between 1855-1857. Plus he's definitely born in Sweden.

Nicolina
07-03-2010, 12:50 AM
When calculating a birth year / age from Census records you need to + or - a year. So given an age of 2 in 1861 would give a birth year of 1858 or1859, which fits perfectly with the birth year in 1881 (1857-58). Another thing is the father's name, John is not a Swedish name, that's an British spelling. In Sweden it would be Jon. Another little thing, surnames ending with SEN are normally Danish.
My advice is not to discount him.
Elaine (who's double-barrelled surname is Danish-Swedish)

welshman247
08-03-2010, 1:04 AM
Interesting point about -SEN having Danish roots... I wonder if they came from Denmark before Sweden.

BTW, I know almost for sure that your 'find' is wrong. None of it adds up really, wrong sort of occupation for the family, wrong place of birth, d.o.b is slightly out, wrong spelling of ELSEN (i did check your find and it's ELSON in it... i'm aware that names can be mis-spelt btw, but it's another thing against it fitting in with all the rest)

What would be really helpful is if someone could tell me how I can find Swedish marriage information or emmigration out of Sweden information from around 1850-1870s... In particular, the Gothenburg area...

welshman247
08-03-2010, 1:23 AM
Also,

ELSEN... Son of ?? what? El? Ellis? What is it likely, I'm aware of the patronymic naming pattern so eventually i'll encounter it...

Procat
08-03-2010, 1:51 AM
There is a pay site for Swedish research which appears to be similar to Ancestry/FMP etc.

http://www.
genline.com/

Nicolina
08-03-2010, 12:44 PM
they still have patronymic naming patterns in Sweden, at least they did when I lived there. The SEN versus SON(N) ending gets me angry when people insist on spelling my surname with SON, or adding an E at the end of the Swedish part.

BeeJay
08-03-2010, 1:22 PM
What would be really helpful is if someone could tell me how I can find Swedish marriage information or emmigration out of Sweden information from around 1850-1870s... In particular, the Gothenburg area...

The emigration records are on Ancestry, if you have a world sub or access it at a library: Emigranten Populär, 1783-1951. I've found all my emigrant Swedish ancestors and their siblings in that database, except for one couple who emigrated via Norway. I found them in the Norwegian emigration records.

PRs are on the Genline site mentionned by Procat and it's an excellent resource for tracing Swedish ancestry.

:smile5:

BeeJay
08-03-2010, 1:39 PM
Also, John might be either Jön or Johan.

:smile5:

welshman247
09-03-2010, 12:15 AM
they still have patronymic naming patterns in Sweden, at least they did when I lived there. The SEN versus SON(N) ending gets me angry when people insist on spelling my surname with SON, or adding an E at the end of the Swedish part.

don't get me started on people spelling the name -ON >< lol ... seriously one of the most annoying things ever!

welshman247
09-03-2010, 12:17 AM
The emigration records are on Ancestry, if you have a world sub or access it at a library: Emigranten Populär, 1783-1951. I've found all my emigrant Swedish ancestors and their siblings in that database, except for one couple who emigrated via Norway. I found them in the Norwegian emigration records.

PRs are on the Genline site mentionned by Procat and it's an excellent resource for tracing Swedish ancestry.

:smile5:

I've not found anything of use in those Ancestry swedish emmigration records... maybe John (Jon/Johan whatever) Elsen was a dane but met a swedish girl (surname Anderson), so maybe I should be looking at Danish emmigration records instead!

dannywh
12-03-2010, 2:57 PM
Jon,

Hang in there! I think I am on the right track for you but need to confirm a couple of findings before I get back to you. As a taster, the English pronounciation of the Swedish name ELIASSON could sound like " A liar's son". That would be a good reason to change it to ELSEN. FreeBMD has: Deaths Mar Qtr 1904 ELSEN Mary Emily 43 Cardiff 11a 220.That might fit if your man is found in the United States as a widower.

welshman247
16-03-2010, 10:42 AM
I appreciate all the help guys! Sounds like you're on the right track Danny. I can't imagine why it'd change to SEN though, I think it must have always been ELSEN. Also you're right about Mary Emily ELSEN dying in 1904, I found that too. Plus I found him down as a widower in the US (New Jersey) - earliest i've found is 1900 I think, was spelled Ellson (or maybe Elsson? I forget...) I think. I've subscribed to genline for a month but didn't find anything useful... :/

dannywh
16-03-2010, 5:41 PM
"Alfred Elesen was born as August Olsson in Gothenburg Cathedral Parish (Göteborg Domkyrkoforsamling) on May 25, 1855.
He was the son of Johannes (John) Olsson and Katrina Magdalena Magnusdotter. Johan (Johannes) Olsson and his wife were also parents of Maria Charlotta (b. 24/11 1845) who married Olof Anderson in 1879. This Olof lived in the US for longer periods with and without his children, as well as with Alfred Elesen. Morgan and Rose Anderson (children of Olof) called Alfred their "uncle" and that"s what made us look into and around Olof"s family to identify Alfred. We did suspect that he was the brother of Maria Charlotta Olsson at an early stage and followed (we got lost many times due to illegible records as well as missing ones) all possible leads to verify Alfred and his origins."

I am indebted to Susanna and Bo of ScanGen who drilled down in the Swedish records for me, to obtain this information for you.

Hope this helps

Danny
,

welshman247
17-03-2010, 1:15 AM
That's fantastic information! Thanks ever so much to you and Susanna and Bo. Do you know where exactly all this info was found?

Jon.

louisa maud
30-03-2010, 4:20 PM
I have a Swedish gt grandfather, I have never found his entry into England despite sitting for hours in Kew looking at ships records, he apparently "sailed the seas" according to my grandmother but I have never found any entry. Henric, who became known as Henry was in London by 1871, when he came we just do not know, so I have given up on him now

Louisa Maud