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cgthornton1
17-11-2009, 12:49 PM
This forum has been incredibly helpful; perhaps you can help me resolve my next issue:

I am interested in information regarding the family of my gggGrandfather George THORNTON . George shows up in the 1851/1861 UK Census records in Walsgrave on Sowe, Warwickshire. In those two documents he reports that he is from “Northampton, Wolverton.” I have been able to identify (with the help of Mrs. Wirral) two other THORNTON males that report in the census records that they are from Wolverton, Buckinghamshire: William THORNTON & John THORNTON; both show up in the census records in Wormleighton, Warwickshire. By expanding the search I have also identified Edward [b. 1813], but he only shows up in the records as being from Hanslope.

[B]CENSUS RECORDS

I have summarized the census records below:

William – Wormleighton, Warwickshire
> 1851 – Buckingham, Wolverton
> 1861 – Bucks, Wolverton
> 1881 – Bucks, Wolverton

[B]George / [d. 1865] – Sowe, Warwickshire
> 1851 – Northampton, Wolverton
> 1861 - Northampton, Wolverton

[B]John THORNTON – Wormleighton, Warwickshire
> 1851 – Buckingham, Hanslip (sic)
> 1861 – Bucks, Wolverton
> 1871 – Bucks, Wolverton
> 1881 – Bucks, Anslope (sic)

[B]Edward THORNTON – Wellesbourne Hastings, Stratford Upon Avon, Warwickshire
> 1851 – Buckinghamshire, Austope (sic)
> 1861 – Handslip, Buckinghamsh.
> 1871 – Buckinghamsh., Hanslope
> 1881 – Bucks, Hansley (sic)

Hanslope, Buckinghamshire is approx. 7 km north of Wolverton, Buckinghamshire.

[B]SEARCHES IN BUCKINGHAMSHIRE

I had a search of the Buckinghamshire baptismal records performed by the Buckinghamshire Family History Society (BFHS) between 1750-1850 and I have found the following:

Wolverton – Holy Trinity 1634 1901 -
> 16 Jun 1805 William son of George & Elisabeth THORNTON
> 13 Nov 1808 Mary daughter of George & Elizabeth THORNTON

Hanslope – St James the Great 1800 1816 -
> 9 Nov 1810 John son of George & Elizabeth THORNTON
> 28 Mar 1813 Edward son of George & Elizabeth THORNTON of Church End, Labourer
> 25 Aug 1816 Jane daughter of George & Elizabeth THORNTON? of ... Lane, Labourer

Hanslope – St James the Great 1817 1863 -
> 19 Mar 1820 Elizabeth daughter of George & Elizabeth THORNTON of Malt Mill Lane, Labourer

ALL George THORNTONs identified in baptismal records of Buckinghamshire in the years spanning 1750 – 1850 include:

Chetwode St Nicholas & St Mary 1582 1813
> 3 Jul 1763 George King son of William & Elizabeth THORNTON

Preston Bissett St John the Baptist 1576 1909 -
> 12 Oct 1834 George son of John & Maria THORNTON, Innkeeper, buried Oct 19 1834

Steeple Claydon St Michael & All Angels 1575 1906 -
> 16 Mar 1842 William George or George William child of John & Maria THORNTON of Steeple Claydon, Farrier, private baptism, received into the Church 11 Sep

Wendover St Mary the Virgin 1576 1901 Published
> 4 May 1845 George Ruthven born 23 Mar 1845 child of Spencer & Caroline Adelaide THORNTON of Wendover Vicarage, Clerk

There are NO possible variants…and no other children attributed to George & Elizabeth THORNTON in the search.

CONCLUSION:

William, John, and Edward appear to be brothers; the sons of George & Elizabeth. A George cannot be found in the searches provided. Given the baptisms of William [June 1805] and Mary [Nov 1808], my calculations for George would put the possible baptism between early 1806 and early 1808 (e.g., February 1806 – February 1808). When queried the BFHS has said that the records from Holy Trinity in Wolverton are incomplete and that they have no baptisms in their database for 1806 and only a few for 1805 and 1807…they suggested that I review the original films for the missing period, omissions, errors, etc…I have ordered the film!

The marriage of George & Elizabeth cannot be found in the Buckinghamshire records between 1750 & 1850. While this is less concerning, the BFHS was very helpful, but didn’t have any additional info on the status of the marriage records from Holy Trinity.

[B]WOLVERTONS:

In regard to the concept of other “Wolvertons:” I have searched ancestry.com a hundred different ways looking for people that might report themselves as being from Wolverton, Northamptonshire.

If you try to search using “Wolverton,” there are four options that appear: Warwickshire, Northamptonshire, Hampshire & Buckinghamshire. Wide open searches for any THORNTONs born in these 4 counties shows:

Warwickshire: zero hits
Northamptonshire: 2 hits (George – 1851/1861 census records)
[B]Hampshire: 1 hit (Agnes )
[B]Buckinghamshire: 13 hits (5 are related to William [b. 1806] & John [b. 1811] of interest…and these are the ONLY two that are born in the same era…the others are all born after 1850).

If I search for people that “report” that they reside in “Wolverton, Northamptonshire” I get thousands of hits. Inspection of these records shows that these people live in:

Civil Parish: Wolverton
Ecclesiastical Parish: St. George the Martyr
County: Northamptonshire
Registration District: Potterspury

However, this observation can only be seen in 1871 and 1891 …this combination does NOT appear in 1841, 1851, 1861, or 1901. Potterspury is about 3.5 km northwest of Wolverton, Buckinghamshire. In these latter four census reports the people living in Potterspury show the following:

Civil Parish: Potterspury
County: Northamptonshire
Registration District: Potterspury

There are NO individuals named THORNTON that appear in any census records as having been born in Potterspury, or ever living in Potterspury!

Am I looking in the right place?

Jan1954
17-11-2009, 1:44 PM
Have you been in contact with the Wolverton & District Archaelogical & Historical Society at all to see if they are able to help? :)

(mkheritage.co.uk/wdahs/ - stick www. in front)

Sandyhall
17-11-2009, 2:20 PM
Hi just been looking at your thread, you are looking in the right places

Wolverton is now in Buckinghamshire.
Pottrsbury is now in Northamptonshire near the county boarders with Buckinghamshire, I say now because at some time in the past (not sure when but someone will tell us I'm sure) the boundarys changed.

Sandy

PS what you need is a old map to look at

cgthornton1
17-11-2009, 2:24 PM
Thanks, I've looked at the Old Maps website and if I put in Wolverton is gives me a few options...one of which is "Wolverton, Northamptonshire," and one of which is "Wolverton, Buckinghamshire." As best I can tell they are the EXACT SAME geographical location!?!?

Jan1954
17-11-2009, 2:31 PM
what you need is a old map to look atPerhaps something like this (http://www.parishchest.com/shop/index.php?cmd=viewproduct&cat=&id=P81823&pageOffset=0), this (http://www.parishchest.com/shop/index.php?cmd=viewproduct&cat=&id=P15036&pageOffset=0) or this (http://www.parishchest.com/shop/index.php?cmd=viewproduct&cat=&id=P15020&pageOffset=0). :)

cgthornton1
12-12-2009, 5:53 PM
I am trying to find a record of the baptism of a “George THORNTON” [b. c1806] in Wolverton, Buckinghamshire, in the Holy Trinity records, the son of George & Elizabeth THORNTON.

I have now reviewed the Family History Library film from the Parish Registers for Holy Trinity Church, Wolverton (No. 1966922).

I have found his brother William THORNTON, baptized on June 16, 1805. On the very next page is the baptism of his sister, Mary THORNTON, baptized on November 13, 1808.

There appears to be a page missing: (a) not only are there NO baptisms or burials for 1806, but (b) on the page where Mary is found it starts with July 17, 1807, and (c) it looks as if a page has been removed...|banghead|

If you look carefully on the whole page with William you will see two lines on the right side of the picture: a thick, straight line (which is the center of the book), and a lighter, diagonal, slightly uneven line…this appears to be where the missing page was removed…regardless, there is NO information for 1806 on the film…whatsoever! MAJOR disappointment! This diagonal line does NOT appear on any other page. I also spent some time looking for other baptisms, for any THORNTON marriages between 1790 and 1805…nothing! And I looked for THORNTON burials in Wolverton…again, NOTHING! In fact, the name THORNTON only appears 3 times in Wolverton as best I could tell (the 3rd appearance was a hand written note regarding Mary with the exact same info described above…I have no idea what it was, but it was no new info).

Could any one tell me how best to have the original document examined to see if a page has actually been removed?

In addition, would there be ANY other document that might help me confirm that George THORNTON [b. c1806] in Wolverton (as seen in the 1851 [HOIO7/2066, folio 586, p1: Sowe, Warwickshire] and 1861 [RG9/2197 folio I, p14; Sowe, Warwickshire] UK Census records) was the son of George & Elizabeth THORNTON of Wolverton.

Thank you for any help, direction or guidance you might be able to provide.

-cgt

Wirral
12-12-2009, 9:10 PM
Have you looked to see if there are Bishop's Transcripts available for the missing dates?
The original register is probably kept at the County Archives. They often have an online catalogue. Try emailing them, explain the problem & ask if they will look at the original. Although they may charge for long searches, archivists at county archives are usually very helpful & may do short, specific lookups for free.

cgthornton1
13-12-2009, 12:52 AM
Thanks Wirral,

Have sent an eMail to the County office...in regard to to the Bishop's Transcripts, here is the info from FHL:

Bishop's transcripts for Wolverton, 1575-1830:
(Parish Church of Wolverton )
Baptisms, marriages, burials, 1575-1576, 1615, 1696-1697. Baptisms, marriages, burials, 1604-1614. Baptisms, marriages, burials, 1820-1827, 1830.
FHL BRITISH Film: [B]1999835

There's a hole in the universe in 1806 in Wolverton!

Wirral
13-12-2009, 10:23 AM
Have you tried contacting "Wolverton & District Archaeological & Historical Society"? Intriguingly, on their home page there is a link to "a special feature on Thornton Village Estate". Wolverton & Thornton are only 6 miles apart. Maybe your THORNTONs originally came from Thornton.

cgthornton1
13-12-2009, 2:04 PM
Wirral, thank you again for taking the time to help.

I have seen the "Wolverton & District Archaeological & Historical Society" and interestingly enough there isn't an eMail address on the website! I have gone to the parent website (the "Milton Keynes Heritage Assoc.") and I tried to eMail them for help but no one ever got back to me...but that was a general inquiry for help with Wolverton; it was before I knew of the problem with the torn page...perhaps a follow-up!

In regard to Thornton Villiage, they have posted the transcription of the "Thornton Marriage Register 1562 - 1812." I could not find a SINGLE reference to the surname THORNTON!

susan e davis
12-04-2010, 7:25 PM
HI .
ON THE GOOGLE SITE YOU ASK IF ANY BODY KNOWS THE BROWNS FROM CHICHELEY BUCKS .THE BROWN FAMILY ARE MY ANCESTERS I CAN LET YOU HAVE DETAILS WITH REGARD TO THEM IF YOU TELL WHICH FAMILY MEMBER YOU ARE LOOKING FOR I NOW GO BACK TO THE MIDDLE 1700.
REGARDS,

SUSAN E DAVIS.

NORTHAMPTON

thorntonFrench
13-04-2010, 6:01 PM
Good evening, I would like to know if you can find somebody called Tyrrel Thornton who was born somewhere in England in June 9th 1806. He came to the USA on the Ship Ontario on 14 December 1832. I'm trying to find his ancestors who are also mine...
Thanks if you can help me...

ThorntonFrench

AdeleE
13-04-2010, 10:49 PM
Good evening, I would like to know if you can find somebody called Tyrrel Thornton who was born somewhere in England in June 9th 1806. He came to the USA on the Ship Ontario on 14 December 1832. I'm trying to find his ancestors who are also mine...
Thanks if you can help me...

ThorntonFrench

Replies to this query should be posted to this earlierthread (http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php?56187-Thornton-Family&highlight=) by ThorntonFrench.

cgthornton1
13-04-2010, 11:00 PM
Hello ThorntonFrench!
I have seen a number of your threads. While I do not think our lines cross, I would strongly recommend you get involed with the THORNTON Surname Project (on Family Tree DNA) and get a Y-chromosome test...we have significant diversity amoungst our participants and you may luck out and find a relative...and a lead! I am happy to help in any way I can, but that may be the best way to make a connection. Please feel free to send me a private message if you wish.
Best,
Chuck