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Rachie
02-11-2009, 11:57 PM
Im not sure this is in the right place, sorry if its not.
How, or where would I find French records? I knew a relative of mine swam the channel, but Ive since found he took part in the french olympics in 1900. He married a Frenchwoman, and lived the remainder of his life in France, untill recently there was a bronze of him in Rotherham swimming baths. He was Thomas W Burgess, b June 15-1872.
Any suggestions where to look please?

Procat
02-11-2009, 11:58 PM
Hi Rachie,

I have moved your post to Europe Genealogy. :)

Lizzy9
03-11-2009, 12:10 AM
Hi Rachie,

Maybe this will help.

www.
sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/bu/thomas-burgess-1.html

Rachie
03-11-2009, 12:24 AM
Hi Rachie,

Maybe this will help.

www.
sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/bu/thomas-burgess-1.html

Thanks Lizzy,
Thats were I found the olympic connection...which was quite a bolt from the blue! I would really like to find where his garage was, and who his "french wife" was.

pottoka
08-11-2009, 11:54 PM
There's a photograph of Bill Burgess on page 6 of this site: http://s263176304.onlinehome.fr/PDF_echo//101TAP.pdf

It says that "on September 6th 1911, Thomas William Burgess (39) was trying to swim the Channel for the 13th time. He entered the water at 11:15 a.m. in Saint Margaret's Bay near the Lighthouse of South Foreland. 22 and a half hours later, having battled bravely against contrary currents, the bearded athlete (1m83 and 93 kg; 6 feet and about 14 and a half stone) arrived on the beach of the Châtelet to the east of Cape Gris-Nez.

Originally from Yorkshire, Burgess had worked in a tyre factory in Paris and kept a garage with his French wife. When swimming, he always wore motorcyclist's goggles."

I'll try to find out more about him, but he seems rather like Buzz Aldrin. Being the "second man", he was the one who was forgotten.

pottoka
09-11-2009, 12:09 AM
http://www.parisenimages.fr/fr/popup-photo.html?photo=12965-8

Bill Burgess in 1906 when he was swimming through Paris - up the Seine?

Mutley
09-11-2009, 12:32 AM
There is quite a lot about him on google, some wonderful pictures but sadly nothing about his French wife though he had a sister Winifred and an alsatian dog called Bob. :(

I loved the sworn statement that he testified that his chief nourishment during his swim was Nestle's Milk Chocolate. :)

Rachie
09-11-2009, 1:05 AM
Thanks so much for those links, I hadnt seen those ones.
As far as I am aware they never had children, and as Mutley said the dog was Bob...but not one site mentions his wife by name?.

Just as a coincidence, last weekend was either a London or Brighton vintage car run to Paris, my brother ( a Burgess) was asked to service a L'Elegance, one of the few remaining, which was originally registered in Paris in 1903.

pottoka
09-11-2009, 1:23 AM
I don't want to get your hopes up too high, but the sports link gave Bill's birth and death dates, places and the names of his parents. With that, I might be able to get hold of his death certificate for you; I tried to check what was need on the site this evening, but it's not working at the moment for some reason.

If I can, it should have his wife's name on it and the date of their marriage, I believe, although I haven't had such a recent French document so I'm not sure.

I've also sent an email to the swimming and water-polo club Bill was part of to ask if they have anything about him in their archives. It could be just an address which would mean I could get someone to look him up on one of the four Censuses available in Paris (1926, 1931, 1936 & 1946). The problem with them is that you have to know where some lived before you can look them up! Keep your fingers crossed!

pottoka
12-11-2009, 10:32 PM
I managed to get into the Paris Archives this evening and have ordered Bill Burgess's death certificate. I just hope that the club got all his details right!

As there was only "Paris" for place of death, I couldn't put an arrondissement which means that all twenty Town Halls in Paris will have to be consulted to find the right one, and it could take up to two months.

But at least I've finally managed to set the ball rolling, so fingers crossed!

Lizzy9
12-11-2009, 10:55 PM
How kind of you, Pottoka :)

When Rachie comes online I'm sure she'll be delighted.

Rachie
13-11-2009, 7:48 AM
I managed to get into the Paris Archives this evening and have ordered Bill Burgess's death certificate. I just hope that the club got all his details right!

As there was only "Paris" for place of death, I couldn't put an arrondissement which means that all twenty Town Halls in Paris will have to be consulted to find the right one, and it could take up to two months.

But at least I've finally managed to set the ball rolling, so fingers crossed!

oh WOW, that is fantastic!
please let me know by PM of any costs so I can reimburse you.
I really really appreciate your help |hug|

Rachie
28-11-2009, 12:35 AM
Just a brief update, it would seem Mr Burgess did have children...in both an article that appeared in an Australian newspaper in 1911, and also some papers Edward got from archives (copyright Im afraid) his children are mentioned, sadly not by name....however in 1911 the "boy" is mentioned as being 14.

pottoka
28-11-2009, 1:46 AM
Just a brief update, it would seem Mr Burgess did have children...in both an article that appeared in an Australian newspaper in 1911, and also some papers Edward got from archives (copyright Im afraid) his children are mentioned, sadly not by name....however in 1911 the "boy" is mentioned as being 14.

That's good news as it could be enough information to find the "boy", or whichever son was born in about 1897, so long as he was born in Paris, and if he can be found, then we'll know his mother's name. I'll put a request on the Paris forum to see if Céline can come up with anything. Did the article say how many children?

pottoka
28-11-2009, 2:23 AM
I was going to update you on Bill's sports club which has not yet replied to my email.

I've got quite a lot on from now until the end of term and then leave France on the last day of term, so I thought I would give them until I get back to reply. That's at the beginning of January. Then, if they still haven't replied, I'll ring them up. I hope that's alright with you.

Rachie
28-11-2009, 10:37 AM
That's good news as it could be enough information to find the "boy", or whichever son was born in about 1897, so long as he was born in Paris, and if he can be found, then we'll know his mother's name. I'll put a request on the Paris forum to see if Céline can come up with anything. Did the article say how many children?

It mentions a boy age 14, and a girl. No age given for her.That was in 1911.

Rachie
28-11-2009, 10:39 AM
I was going to update you on Bill's sports club which has not yet replied to my email.

I've got quite a lot on from now until the end of term and then leave France on the last day of term, so I thought I would give them until I get back to reply. That's at the beginning of January. Then, if they still haven't replied, I'll ring them up. I hope that's alright with you.

Yes of course it is, I appreciate any help :)

Rachie
30-11-2009, 11:17 PM
That's good news as it could be enough information to find the "boy", or whichever son was born in about 1897, so long as he was born in Paris, and if he can be found, then we'll know his mother's name. I'll put a request on the Paris forum to see if Céline can come up with anything. Did the article say how many children?

No luck with the boy, but the girl was Camilla Anne, born 1907. I cannot read the street name but the area is Levallois-Perret.
I found this, via a transcription error...
Name: Anne Rosalie Mioux
Marriage Bann Date: 23 juil. 1893 (23 Jul 1893)
Father's Name: Jacques Mioux
Mother's Name: Rosalie Boulliaton
Spouse's name: Thomas William Burgen .

Also a death registration for Thomas, who was by then a widow, he died in 1950 at Rue Villiers but his address was 17 Rue Du Bac d'Asnières,Clinchy.

pottoka
02-12-2009, 7:20 PM
This is interesting news and changes things somewhat. Levallois Perret is a town in the Hauts de Seine department, number 92, in the suburbs of Paris rather than in Paris itself (75). There is a forum for the Hauts de Seine so I've posted a request for the marriage certificate and possibly the birth certificates of the children as well, although I'm not sure 1907 will be available to search.

As regards Bill's death certificate, the process in Paris has been launched and can't be stopped; also, there is a rue Villiers in Paris. But there is a rue de Villiers in Levallois Perret as well which is, according to a route-finder site, only 2.4 kms from 17, Rue du Bac d'Asnières, in Clichy. I don't know if it is possible to get hold of such a recent death certificate in the Hauts de Seine, but I will ring up and find out.

pottoka
02-12-2009, 7:39 PM
No luck with the boy, but the girl was Camilla Anne, born 1907. I cannot read the street name but the area is Levallois-Perret.
I found this, via a transcription error...
Name: Anne Rosalie Mioux
Marriage Bann Date: 23 juil. 1893 (23 Jul 1893)
Father's Name: Jacques Mioux
Mother's Name: Rosalie Boulliaton
Spouse's name: Thomas William Burgen .

Also a death registration for Thomas, who was by then a widow, he died in 1950 at Rue Villiers but his address was 17 Rue Du Bac d'Asnières,Clinchy.

I forgot to ask: do you have a link for where you found this information?

Rachie
04-12-2009, 11:42 PM
I forgot to ask: do you have a link for where you found this information?

No link as it was an email, from someone who was sent it by someone else.
Its a scan, written in script not text so im not sure how to get the info onto here...but i can email it?

pottoka
06-12-2009, 3:25 AM
...but i can email it?

Yes, fine, I've sent you my email address. http://bestsmileys.com/mail/19.gif

pottoka
26-10-2012, 12:44 PM
This was all a long time ago, and I never did manage to get hold of Bill Burgess' death certificate for you.

I remembered it because there was a Flog It! (I watch all sorts of rubbish) episode recently where they were in Dover and talked about cross-channel swimmers. They showed a very short piece of film of Bill Burgess - a still photo and a picture of him swimming and when he arrived. Apparently he trained the first woman to swim the Channel: Gertrude Ederle in 1926. It's still available on bbc iplayer: it's series 8, n° 37, Dover.