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Wayne Cook
13-10-2009, 7:30 AM
Ok,

This is a wild card guess.

I know Daniel Justin Bruyn was born 26 May 1847 at Graville, Le Havre, Seine, France parents Daniel Joseph Bruyn and Sarah Helen Nicholls.

According to a family bible the family lived in France for 4 years and left just after the start of the 2nd French Industrial Revolution (that started in 1848)

Sarah Malvina Bruyn is recorded as being born in England 1850.

Daniel Joseph Bruyn's death certificate says deceased Maria and Austin.

I so far can't appear to find them in England and they weren't on the ship that arrived in Australia 1 May 1856.

So I'm thinking, maybe they were born and/or died in France.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Kind Regards,

Wayne

pottoka
08-11-2009, 8:13 PM
I see from the 1851 Census that Daniel Justin Bruyn and Sarah Malvina Bruyn were siblings and had older brothers and sisters called Margaret, Joseph, Ellen and Elizabeth. If I understand your post rightly, an Australian death certificate gives the children of the dead person and so there also would have been siblings called Maria and Austin, but they must have died before the family emigrated to Australia.

There is a birth registration for an Agustin (sic) Bruyn in King's Norton R.D. in the first quarter of 1854 (vol 6c, page 439) and a death registration for Augustin Bru_N in King's Norton R.D. in the last quarter of 1854 (vol 6c, page 282).

Could this be the Austin referred to? What exactly does it say in the family bible?

pottoka
08-11-2009, 8:40 PM
Bruyn does not seem to be very popular with the BMD transcribers! They get the spelling wrong fairly often.

This is Sarah Malvina's birth:

Name: Sarah Malvina Bru[Yj]N
Year of Registration: 1850
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Kings Norton (To 1912)
County: Staffordshire, Warwickshire, Worcestershire
Volume: 18
Page: 425

These are the records for Augustin:

Name: Agustin Bruyn
Year of Registration: 1854
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Kings Norton (To 1912)
County: Staffordshire, Warwickshire, Worcestershire
Volume: 6c
Page: 439

Name: Augustin Bru_N
Year of Registration: 1854
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Kings Norton (To 1912)
County: Staffordshire, Warwickshire, Worcestershire
Volume: 6c
Page: ... (looking at the original image gives page n° 282)

Augustin could well be a French name that the couple heard and liked when in France, or they named the child after a friend they had in France called Augustin.

Wayne Cook
11-11-2009, 2:25 AM
I see from the 1851 Census that Daniel Justin Bruyn and Sarah Malvina Bruyn were siblings and had older brothers and sisters called Margaret, Joseph, Ellen and Elizabeth. If I understand your post rightly, an Australian death certificate gives the children of the dead person and so there also would have been siblings called Maria and Austin, but they must have died before the family emigrated to Australia.

There is a birth registration for an Agustin (sic) Bruyn in King's Norton R.D. in the first quarter of 1854 (vol 6c, page 439) and a death registration for Augustin Bru_N in King's Norton R.D. in the last quarter of 1854 (vol 6c, page 282).

Could this be the Austin referred to? What exactly does it say in the family bible?

Hi Pottoka,

Thanks.

Yes they are all siblings (Joseph is a 1/2 sibling to the others).
Yes the Australian Death Certificate mentions deceased children and Maria and Austin are on it (they did not come to Australia so were before the family arrived in Australia).

The record for Augustin may be Austin mentioned on the death certificate as Elizabeth Bruyn (their sibling and my great grandmother) married Benjamin Cook and they had a son (my grandfather) named Frederick Augustin (Augustus) Cook.

The only family bible I am aware of is Margaret's and I'm not not aware that it mentions Maria or Austin in it.

Kind Regards,

Wayne

pottoka
11-11-2009, 1:36 PM
According to a family bible the family lived in France for 4 years and left just after the start of the 2nd French Industrial Revolution (that started in 1848)


What exactly does it say in the Bible? It seems strange (to me) that it's been recorded that the family lived in France, but not when and where children were born.

I'll ask Martine to look for Bruyn births and deaths in the eighteen forties. There are ten-year tables in alphabetical order so it's not as huge an undertaking as it sounds at first.

And I'll put Daniel's certificate in the post for you; sorry, but it's still sitting by my computer with one I have to translate. It won't go today as it's the Armistice Bank Holiday, but tomorrow definitely.

Wayne Cook
11-11-2009, 9:22 PM
Pottoka,

I believe the bible is the Margaret Bruyn and Francis Monaghan family bible and starts with them here in Australia.

I'll try again and see if I can find Maria in England.

No worries about the certificate. When you get the time.

Thanks,

Wayne

pottoka
11-12-2009, 8:23 PM
Both the birth registration and the death registration are in the name of Mary, not Maria.

She was born at three o'clock in the morning of Thursday 15th May 1845 and died on Saturday 19th September 1846 at three o'clock in the afternoon, aged one year and four months. Both events happened rue Catinat, in the district of Trigauville, in Graville, where Daniel Justin was born. There is no cause of death given.

I asked Martine to send photocopies if possible, but she took photos. Would you like me to get photocopies of the papers for you from the Town Hall?

Wayne Cook
13-12-2009, 4:21 AM
Thankyou so much.

That is great, I now have located the whole (known) family :) (ie: all my great grandmother's siblings).

No need for the photocopies of the originals if they are the same as the photos.

Thanks again,

Wayne

Wayne Cook
20-05-2014, 7:31 AM
Hi Pottoka,

Due to a relationship split all my records that I had on the computer are now gone. I'm trying to rebuild my research. I know it's a long shot but would your friend Martine still have a copy of the photo of these records?

I have only just remembered my user name and password for here (ended up locating some of my posts to get the user name and somehow after several attempts got the password correct).

Kind Regards,

Wayne

Wayne Cook
22-05-2014, 7:14 AM
Pottoka, you are an invaluable help and source of information

pottoka
29-05-2014, 7:40 PM
Hello Wayne,

I haven't been on site for ages nor I have checked my emails for about three weeks so you'll have to forgive me for replying to you somewhat late. Sorry about that.

As for finding your records, you appear to be in luck for the originals (photos) of Mary's birth and death which I still have in a little-used email box. Thank goodness for Chrome which remembers all my email addresses - even the ones I got wrong when I entered them! Did I translate them for you/did you need them translating? I have had to change my computer since then, but the hard drive was saved so I may still have translations.

The Archives of the Seine Maritime are on line now so I can explain to you - tomorrow if you don't mind, as it's a bit long, and it's late to start now - how to find Daniel's birth registration which you will then be able to print directly. It may be better to do the same with Mary's details, to have less of an edge, but we'll see. Remind me if I've forgotten anyone.

Please send me a PM (private message) with your email address so that I can start sending copies to you tomorrow.

pottoka
01-06-2014, 4:28 PM
To use the online BMDs of the department of the Seine Maritime, put www.archivesdepartementales76.net into your search engine and click. Under the title Archives départementales de Seine-Maritime, you will see two short columns of results; click on 'Archives en ligne'.

You will reach a page with four images to the left; click on the title of the top left-hand image 'L'état civil'. On the next page, click on 'Cliquez ici pour accéder à l'Etat Civil en ligne'

To look for Daniel's birth registration, choose "Graville" in the drop-down menu called 'commune' and enter 1847 and 1847 in the date boxes. Click on 'Rechercher'.

You will be offered four results: Décès (Deaths); Mariages; Naissances (Births) and Tables décennales (ten year registers for looking up births etc of which you don't know the date). Click on "Graville-l'Heure > Registres Etat Civil > Naissances" then double click on the book saying 262 images. This will open a new page which shows the actual register; you have to turn the pages to find Daniel's birth registration either by using the right-hand arrow on your computer or by clicking on the right hand side of the little book on the far right at the bottom of the page.

Daniel's entry is n° 190 on the left hand side of the register and starts "Du jeudi vingt-septième jour du mois de mai" because that's when the birth was registered. You can magnify it with the "magnifying glass" (it seems to need to be turned off, then turned back on, then you draw over the part you want magnified) or turn it sideways, but I don't know if it will print like that. You'll just have to try it out and see what works best for you.

Wayne Cook
02-06-2014, 1:07 AM
Hi thanks, I haven't been on for a few days and just seen this. I think you did translate as I don't speak English. I'll pm you my email address.

Wayne Cook
02-06-2014, 1:09 AM
Thanks I will give it a try

Wayne Cook
03-06-2014, 3:08 AM
Thanks, ok I got in easier as the link above takes you straight to where you select Etat Civil and it then pulls up the page to put in the place and years. I found them. Even found an index at the back of each book :D It would be good to have all 3 translated.
I think it says Sarah's middle name is Helen or something like that. Daniel Justin Bruyn 1847 Graville birth Page 97 (entry 190), Mary Bruyn 1845 Graville birth page 74 (entry 146) and death 1846 page 155 (entry 305)

natae61
09-11-2015, 12:48 PM
Hopeing the people searching for info on Margaret Bruyn & Francis Monaghan are still on line any info on these 2 would be greatly appreciated I'm related to their daughter Sarah Rosanna Monaghan

Wayne Cook
05-03-2018, 12:05 AM
We are related then. Elizabeth Bruyn was my great grandmother