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View Full Version : Mary Jane Burton nee Hall b. 1825



IreneH
22-03-2005, 7:46 PM
Has anyone who got access to 1841 or 1851 census records? If so could you do a search for Mary Jane Burton, hunsband Thomas, please. Mary Jane died in 1853. She was born in Winterton Lincolnshire 1825 one of twelve kids.
I haven't yet been able to find where she died or when or where she married, or any trace of Thomas - but then I don't know where or when Thomas was born - makes it tricky!
Thanks
Irene

Geoff Everitt
24-03-2005, 8:41 AM
Was Burton her maiden or married name? If the former, then who was her husband?

Pam Downes
24-03-2005, 1:51 PM
Hi Geoff,
You've done what I always tend to do - see there's a new post, read it, and then either reply or ignore depending on whether or not I (might) know the answer. And I never bother to read the TITLE OF THE POST - which often gives that extra bit of information :D

Pam Downes

Procat
25-03-2005, 4:01 AM
Hi Irene,

This MAY be her but with the lack of other information hard to prove - though it is a big family and still growing by the look of it.

1841 census HO 107/649 19 Schedule 47 Page 7

Winterton, Wintringham Road

Samuel Hall, 45, Joiner, Born County
Elizabeth Hall, 40, Born County
Mary Jane Hall, 15, Born County
John Hall, 13 Born County
William Hall, 12, Born County
Richard Hall, 10, Born County
Sarah Hall, 8, Born County
Thomas Hall, 6, Born County
Ann Hall, 4, Born County
George Hall, 2, Born County
Mathew Hall, 3 Months, Born County
George Drayton, 15, Apprentice, Born County
John Rowbottom, 15, Apprentice, Born County.

I don't have an index for the census so there may be other possibilities.

Guy Etchells
25-03-2005, 8:53 AM
One of the few actions that really annoys me is when a poster on a mailing list, newsgroup or forum places information in the subjct line but does not repeat it in the body of the posting.

When one views all postings the subjects are often ignored and not repeating the information in the body may result in the request being ignored or the wrong advice given.
Cheers
Guy

IreneH
29-03-2005, 8:25 PM
Humble apologies Guy.

Good to hear from you again Procat. That is the right Mary Jane. The family stopped with Matthew, but there are three other kids who have left home at this stage. You've given me where the family lived which I didn't have before. Did it give what Samuel did for a living as well?

Mary Jane married Thomas Burton which is the bit I'm looking for. She died 1853 (possible in child birth) so she wasn't married long. I'm trying to find if she had any kids to Thomas and what happened to Thomas after she died. Thomas is a problem as I know nothing about him at all other than he married Mary Jane! What I need is the 1851 census and/or a marriage record. Or get his date DOB at least.
Thanks for you help Procat.

Pam Downes
29-03-2005, 11:25 PM
Hi Irene,

You said in your first post that you don't know where Mary died. So how do you know that she died in 1853?
Do you know if she and Thomas had any children?
In looking for her marriage and death EXACTLY where have you looked? FreeBMD? IGI? Winterton PRs?
Have you considered that she might have hopped across the Humber to Yorkshire, or gone west to somewhere like Doncaster?
And have you seen the Thomas Burton on the 1881, born Winterton, aged 55, therefore born <1826> ? And still living in Winterton.
(Sorry, not in logical order, but only just thought to check the number of Thomases on the 1881.)

p.s. Procat has given Samuel's occupation

Pam Downes

IreneH
30-03-2005, 12:23 AM
Hi Pam,

I don't have access to census, have looked in FreeBMD nothing came up that I could see - thats not to say that it's not there - just couldn't see it. How do I know she died in 1835 and who she married - we have found a family tree just last month when and old lady died and the tree surfaced, giving that info - but not where she died or if she had any kids. Nothing came up IGI. Some of us are not as expert at this as others, I'm still learning.

I noticed Samuel's occupation after I posted darn't it! Ok Winterton PRs???? What is that?

Thanks for your help
Irene


PS. I was picking that she had married in Winterton but just couldn't find anything.

Pam Downes
30-03-2005, 2:10 AM
Hi Irene,

Do be a bit careful with that family tree. The accuracy depends on how long ago it was compiled. The nearer to an event that the date was written down, the more accurate it is likely to be. (how many times do you have to think whether it was last Wednesday or last Thursday that you did something? :) )
And I do hope that you're not including me with the experts. Compared to people like Guy, Geoffers, Rod, to name but a few, my knowledge would fit on a postage stamp with room to spare.
To go back to my previous post:
On a hunch, I looked at the 1881 census online at
www.familysearch.org
for Thomas Burton, born Lincolnshire, 1825, +/- 2 years. And there's Thomas, born Winterton, still living Winterton. So he HAS to be a strong contender for Mary's hubby, and therefore there is also a good chance that she lived in the village all, or most of, her life, and married and died there.
Since then I've had another hunch, and had a look at Hugh Wallis' site. It gives you the batch numbers of the church registers which the LDS extracted and then put on the IGI.

If the intro seems a bit confusing, it becomes a bit clearer when you get to 'take me to the numbers'. Click England.
Then Lincolnshire S-Z, letter W, and scroll down to Winterton.
You'll see C033811 (batch number) with 2 sets of dates beside it, one of which is 1743 - 1855 - which just happens to be the time span you're interested in. The 'C' means that the batch contains baptisms. (The 'M' on the batch in the next column means marriages.) Click on the batch number.
Type 'Burton' and click submit query. You then get a list of all Burtons listed in the Bishop's Transcripts as being baptised in Winterton between those dates. You might find two of them c1850 very interesting.

continued.....

Pam Downes

Pam Downes
30-03-2005, 2:44 AM
Just a pity that the marriage batch doesn't go up to 1850, but you might find Mary and Thomas' parents marriages listed.
How do I know that the records were extracted from the Bishop's Transcripts (aka BTs?)
When you click on a name you get an Individual Record. Scroll down to messages and it says 'extracted record'.
Scroll down to source information and you will see the batch numbers listed with the dates, and a source call number. Click on this. Sometimes you have more than one parish on a film, so do read the results carefully, but C033811 says just 'Bishop's Transcripts Winterton'.
Bishops Transcripts should be a copy of the parish registers (the PRs of a previous post) for 6 years BUT they frequently vary so you should always refer to the PRs, the BTs, and the ATs whenever possible. The ATs are the Archdeacons (Archbishop? - never can remember the correct title) Transcripts and are completed from the parish registers every 7th year.
Remember also that the IGI is a transcription so you should always refer to the actual register i.e. the primary source.

continued....

Pam Downes

Pam Downes
30-03-2005, 3:06 AM
Don't know how far you are from Dunedin, but there is an LDS FHC there, and for a small charge they can order most church and census records for you to view.
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHC/frameset_fhc.asp
for address and opening hours details.
for details of the records you can order
select place search, enter Winterton, click on the Lincs one.
Select the type of record you want - the church indexes don't look particularly helpful as they are only print-outs. For the purpose of this exercise select church records.
You have a choice of 5.
Second one's no good - wrong dates.
Third one says 'extracts' and dates are too early.
Fourth one again has wrong dates.
So you need the 5th one, and I would also order the first one of the Bishop's Transcripts as well.
Click on the blue writing of the 5th entry. Notes on the next page say that it's microfilm of original records in Lincs Archives.
Now click on 'view film notes' in top right-hand of page.
There are 4 films to chose from. Read the contents of each film carefully to ensure that you get the correct film. Also note that the way the entries are listed is usually the way the entries appear on the film. So you can get marriages 1800 -1837, followed by burials 1775-1802, followed by baptisms 1779 - 1846 - they don't always follow a logical order.

And as you've seen, you can also order the census.

Think I've finished with familysearch.org but there's a couple more bits........

Pam Downes

Pam Downes
30-03-2005, 3:35 AM
When it's finished FreeBMD will be wonderful as it will give big clues as to who married who, but at the moment it's incomplete, so if there's no entry there you must always refer to the full GRO Index.
Available online (pay-to-view) at 1837 online
or should be available at the LDS FHC.
Unfortunately prior to the 1870s not every event was registered so if you know the parish I would always look in the PRs first. A marriage certificate from the GRO will give you no more information than the church register.
Birth and death certificates will give you those actual dates as opposed to baptism and burial dates. For lots of info on certificates
http://www.dixons.clara.co.uk/Certificates/indexbd.htm

And for stuff about Lincolnshire
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LIN/
http://www.rootsweb.com/~englin/
http://home.wi.rr.com/lincolnshire/
http://groups.msn.com/EnglishChurchPhotographs/
(look on 'further Lincs Churches page 10 precisely)

If Dunedin LDS FHC is no go, let me know, as there is a possible alternative.

Pam Downes

IreneH
30-03-2005, 8:07 PM
Hi Pam,

Thanks for all that info. i will have a play and see what I can do. I'm now registered Ancestry so now have access to census 1871,81,91 and 1901 which will help a lot!

The "Tree" found is right on the button! Dovetails with everything I've got and has given me all the married names of the girls. Some I already had. This "Tree" was a real surpirse as, until this surfaced I (and the rest of my family) had no idea that any more of Samuel and Elizabeth's brood had come to NZ. Greg contacted me - after seeing a request on the internet for info about Sam and Eliz - after his mother had died last month and sent me the "Tree". Greg is the Ggrandson of Matthew Hall who was my Ggrandfather's (George) youngest brother. A third brother William, also came out here. Exciting stuff! Ralies I didn't know I had in this country.

regards

Irene

Geoff Everitt
31-03-2005, 1:07 PM
1851 Winterton 2117/75

High Street
Thomas Burton 25 Boot and shoe maker, Winterton
Mary A 25 Winterton

2117/72

Back Lane
Samuel Hall 55 Wheelwright, North Kelsey
Elizabeth 49
Sarah 18 Dressmaker
Thomas 15 Wheelwright
Ann 13 Scholar
George 12 Scholar
John Driffill 21 Wheelwright, Flixborough
All others born Winterton.

1861 Winterton

2400/5
Winteringham Road
Samuel Hall 65 Carpenter, N Kelsey
Elizabeth 59 Home duties, Winterton

2400/40
Thomas Burton 35 Boot and shoe maker, Winterton
Harriet 27 Wrawby
Charles 9m Winterton

IreneH
31-03-2005, 8:05 PM
Ahhh! All is starting to become clear. Thanks Geoff. Could you do a coulpe more searchs for me please. Mary and Thomes had two kids Eliza born 8 Jun 1851 and Thomas born 9 Jan 1853 both in Winterton. Mary died in 1853 and Thomas has remarried hence Harrit and Charles in 1861. Where are Eliza and Thomas between 1851 and 71? Eliza surfaces with her aunt Pleasance Hall in th 1871 census as a 20 yr old. I think I've found Thomas in 1871 with Thomas and Herrit, but I'll go back check that.
The other search could you have a look for William Hall born 1829 George Hall born 1839 and Matthew Hall born 1841 in Winterton please. These three are brothers all came out to NZ. George, I know arrived here in 1857. If you could check both 1851 and 1861 please. I'm picking that none of them will come up in 1861. In which case it is a fair bet that they all came out together. William was married in the UK to Jane Elizabeth no last name, and they have a couple of kids
Many thanks
Irene

IreneH
31-03-2005, 11:47 PM
Oops! It was James Burton born 1853 not Thomas. Sorry.

Irene

Pam Downes
01-04-2005, 12:08 AM
The "Tree" found is right on the button! Dovetails with everything I've got and has given me all the married names of the girls. Some I already had.


Hi Irene,

I'm so pleased that the tree 'fits'.

Pam Downes