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Nicos
07-04-2009, 11:30 AM
I've two members of one family missing in the 1841 Census- they're either in the workhouse or away fighting.
Can anyone tell me please where there was fighting over that period- I think in Afghanistan????
How would i find a list of the foot soldiers in each regiment????

Thanks

jeeb
07-04-2009, 11:51 AM
I've two members of one family missing in the 1841 Census- they're either in the workhouse or away fighting.


Thanks

Hi Nicos,
What leads you to think these are the only two options why the two brothers are missing in 1841? There are many reasons you may not be able to find them, the most likely being mistranscription of the name.

Jeremy

Nicos
07-04-2009, 12:15 PM
I agree - the surname has about 14 variations so far!!!!!:o
Tis a father and son- both called Edward Tolliday b c1800 and 1823- the latter b Alconbury , Hunts.
It was just a thought- trying to get round my brick wall |banghead|

I've slowly been going through all the handwriten Census details for that year for Huntingdonshire and Cambridgeshire...and then onto Norfolk to follow a hunch.|snore|

Tis slowly driving me mad...but it's interesting how your own surname jumps out at you from the page!!!!

Just thought of checking military records and then workhouse details if I can find a list of names somewhere!

....what do you think?????

jeeb
07-04-2009, 12:34 PM
Hi Nicos,

The 1841 & 1851 do not show any suitable candidates for either Edward at a quick glance.

The 1861 has an Edward Tolliday, birthplace unknown, in Alconbury. He has a wife and 2 children all born Alconbury but this Edward's birth year is 1833, is this the same man?

Jeremy

Nicos
07-04-2009, 12:57 PM
Yup- his details change with each Census!!!:o
I have his marriage certificate and it's certainly the right guy- but I just can't find him or his father .
he was married to Mary Ann Coleman 17th Sept 1855- both of full age in Alconbury.
Labourer and son of Edward Tolliday- labourer- so his father was certainly alive then! Cant find his death anywhere which makes me wonder if he was from outside the area!
I've got Mary Ann for 1841 and 1851- and she was in the workhouse in 1841 and her mother had remarried in 1851, but neither Edward for 41 or 51 |computer|:o

Nicos
07-04-2009, 1:00 PM
Interestingly Edward Jnrs first daughter was called Susan- and as there is no Susan on his wife's side, I thought maybe Edward Snr may have been married to a Susan??

But that's digressing!
Can you see why I thought it might be easier to have a break and search military and workhouse records????!!!

jeeb
07-04-2009, 2:00 PM
Hi Nicos,
It would seem Edward did not really know his actual birthplace nor probably his actual age. This is suggested by the different ages & birthplaces given on censuses and in 1861 he actually admits to not knowing his birthplace. This suggests his father was 'nomadic' probably moving with seasonal work. The fact his father is not stated dead on his son's marriage certificate does not neccessarily mean he was still alive and I think it possible he may not have been.

There is a death registered that could be the father unless you know differently:-

Edward Tolliday Jul/Sept 1857 Huntingdon vol 3b page 152

(There is a birth reg in same quarter for Edward Thomas Tolliday so it could equally be a death of this child)

Edward Jnr, as you will no doubt know is registered dead in 1893:-

Edward Tolliday age 70 Oct/Dec 1893 Huntingdon vol 3b page 183

Given the uncertainty of Edward Jnr's birthplace & age I have found what could be him in 1851.

He is living in Huntingdon as a Lodger with a family named Newell. He is 21, a general Lab, born Long Sutton, Lincs. ref HO107/1748 Folio 543 Page 32

In 1841 there is a family named Tolliday living in Long Sutton but neither Edward is there. I think it is likely they missed the census.

Jeremy

Nicos
07-04-2009, 2:40 PM
Gosh- you have been busy..thank you!!!!:)

Ok.....I hadn't thought about hem being nomadic- I'd wondered if a neighbour had given the information as best they could as to the unknown place of birth.
Good idea!

Edward T died 1857 was Edward jnrs first son- I have a copy of that death certificate- aged 4 weeks.

Yup - I have Edward jnrs death27/12/1893

1851- yup- I have that Edward in st Mary's Huntingdon born Long Sutton- but then wondered if it could be my Edward as he seemed sure of his place of birth also his age is 8 yrs out- although I realise they were only approximate ages then- it would certainly tally with the 1841 census of John and Elizabeth-I wonder if they could be his grandparent- they'd be old enough??
There is an Edwin Tolliday b1835 in the 1841 Census on page 20- but his father was born 1811 and was also called William.
It seems your find is more likely.

Tis a bit confusing at that point isn't it???
I'm seeing if there is a lead from the famous Bates and Nathanial Tolliday line from Histon which was nearby.


You say they may have missed the census- or badly transcribed- do you think my military idea is a possibility- or would Edward Snr been too old at 50- I'm thinking that now:o

See- this is my brick wall:o

Any other ideas would be wonderful...hanks for all your time researching for me today!;)

Nicos
07-04-2009, 3:32 PM
Just had a thought- I wonder if Edward Snr was sent 'overseas' to Austalia???

jeeb
07-04-2009, 5:52 PM
Hi Nicos,
I feel that because Edward Jnr is always a Labourer, usually 'Ag' then the Military idea is unlikely but of course not impossible.
With regards to Edward Snr being deported - well again a possibility but probably unlikely. I think he is more likely to be dead pre 1837. Edward Jnr could be anywhere in 1841 and probably not on the census.
It may be an idea to try and look at Long sutton registers to see if an Edward was baptised there (according to 1851 an Edward was born there!) The age on 1851 of the Edward Toliday, lodger says he was born 1830, which you think was too late for your Edward but according to 1861 the Edward we know to be yours gives a birth year of 1833 so I think the 1851 lodger stands a good chance of being the same man.
It would also help maybe to find the death of a Susan Tolliday.

Jeremy

Nicos
07-04-2009, 9:28 PM
OK- will chase that up!...thanks for the support!...things shared are suddenly much easier aren't they!!;)
Will let you know how I get on!!
Ta !

jeeb
07-04-2009, 10:05 PM
Hi Nicos,
Had you noticed a family of Tolliday in HISTON near Cambridge and not far from Huntingdon use many of the same family names eg Susan, Robert, George & Fred? May be further research needed but couldn't see any Edwards though.

Jeremy

Nicos
08-04-2009, 11:09 AM
WOW....where did you see those???- that sounds more promising doesn't it???- esp if Edward was away working!!!

Histon is where the Bates Tolliday family were-but his kids had different names ( that's one of the lines I'm esp interested in!)

jeeb
14-04-2009, 8:17 PM
Hi Nicos,
Did you know there is Edward Tolledy (various spelling of name on sibling's baptisms) son of Edward & Mary baptised 5 June 1800 at Isleham, Cambs. He had a sister Susanna.

Jeremy

apowell
22-04-2009, 10:11 AM
Hi,

I'm not sure this helps but I found an entry on the familysearch site:

EDWARD TOLLEDY Christening: 05 JUN 1800 Isleham, Cambridge, England
Father: EDWARD TOLLEDY
Mother: MARY

I think Cambridgeshire is near Huntingdonshire and the date is close.

What do you think?

Regards
Adrian

Oops sorry Jeremy I didn't see your post and you're ahead of me.

Spangle
22-04-2009, 4:16 PM
Hi Nicos,
I feel that because Edward Jnr is always a Labourer, usually 'Ag' then the Military idea is unlikely but of course not impossible.
With regards to Edward Snr being deported - well again a possibility but probably unlikely. I think he is more likely to be dead pre 1837. Edward Jnr could be anywhere in 1841 and probably not on the census.
It may be an idea to try and look at Long sutton registers to see if an Edward was baptised there (according to 1851 an Edward was born there!) The age on 1851 of the Edward Toliday, lodger says he was born 1830, which you think was too late for your Edward but according to 1861 the Edward we know to be yours gives a birth year of 1833 so I think the 1851 lodger stands a good chance of being the same man.
It would also help maybe to find the death of a Susan Tolliday.

Jeremy

I reckon that your Edward was born 1830 Nico... and that he was a militiaman.

I found this on the Cambridgeshire Archive website:


1 Huntingdonshire Quarter Sessions records
October Sessions: Edward Tolliday, 24, labourer and militiaman; Assaulting a constable, Stephen Ayres, at Huntingdon. 3 months' hard labour
Date: - 1854
Ref Number - HCP/1/37 part

There are also these:

2 Histon Parish Church
Special licence for marriage between Alfred Pridgeon of Cottenham, widower, and Eliza Tolliday of Histon.
27 February 1924
P93/1/22

3 Histon Parish Church
Bastardy. Filiation order to James Carter, butcher, to maintain child of Elizabeth Carter, his wife, late Elizabeth Tolliday, spinster. 6 March 1830

:)

Spangle
22-04-2009, 4:17 PM
Hi Nicos,
I feel that because Edward Jnr is always a Labourer, usually 'Ag' then the Military idea is unlikely but of course not impossible.
With regards to Edward Snr being deported - well again a possibility but probably unlikely. I think he is more likely to be dead pre 1837. Edward Jnr could be anywhere in 1841 and probably not on the census.
It may be an idea to try and look at Long sutton registers to see if an Edward was baptised there (according to 1851 an Edward was born there!) The age on 1851 of the Edward Toliday, lodger says he was born 1830, which you think was too late for your Edward but according to 1861 the Edward we know to be yours gives a birth year of 1833 so I think the 1851 lodger stands a good chance of being the same man.
It would also help maybe to find the death of a Susan Tolliday.

Jeremy

I reckon that your Edward WAS born 1830 Nicos... and that he was a militiaman.

I found this on the Cambridgeshire Archive website:


1 Huntingdonshire Quarter Sessions records
October Sessions: Edward Tolliday, 24, labourer and militiaman; Assaulting a constable, Stephen Ayres, at Huntingdon. 3 months' hard labour
Date: - 1854
Ref Number - HCP/1/37 part

There are also these:

2 Histon Parish Church
Special licence for marriage between Alfred Pridgeon of Cottenham, widower, and Eliza Tolliday of Histon.
27 February 1924
P93/1/22

3 Histon Parish Church
Bastardy. Filiation order to James Carter, butcher, to maintain child of Elizabeth Carter, his wife, late Elizabeth Tolliday, spinster. 6 March 1830

:)

Nicos
12-05-2009, 11:22 AM
I reckon that your Edward WAS born 1830 Nicos... and that he was a militiaman.
:)


Hmmm- I had that militia info- which got me thinking about what fighting wa going o around 1841/1851

HOWEVER......:o...I've got the inscription from his grave...
" IL Mem of Edward Tolliday when he departed this life 27.12.1893 aged 70 also of Mary Ann wife of the above who departed this life 28.4.1904 aged 72.
Rest dear parents thy labour is o'er, thy willing hands will toil no more,father& mother, both true & kind, no friends on earth like Thee will find"

So you see- his children believed he was born in 1823!- and it's certainly the right Edward as he was married to Mary Ann.

The other info is interesting...thanks for that!!

Nicos
12-05-2009, 11:31 AM
Hi Nicos,
Did you know there is Edward Tolledy (various spelling of name on sibling's baptisms) son of Edward & Mary baptised 5 June 1800 at Isleham, Cambs. He had a sister Susanna.

Jeremy



I have found a marriage between Edward and Mary Rumbelow on IGI 25/4/1790 Isleham
Susanna (bap 11/12/1791)could have either been a first- or second born to that marriage!

- do you have access to the rest of their children's names/dob/various spellings???- or is there a site I can access???

Thanks

Nicos
12-05-2009, 11:33 AM
Hi,

I'm not sure this helps but I found an entry on the familysearch site:

EDWARD TOLLEDY Christening: 05 JUN 1800 Isleham, Cambridge, England
Father: EDWARD TOLLEDY
Mother: MARY

I think Cambridgeshire is near Huntingdonshire and the date is close.

What do you think?

Regards
Adrian

Oops sorry Jeremy I didn't see your post and you're ahead of me.

Thanks!!..I'm thinking on the same lines as ou here!
If I can get more first names, I may find a family trend to each line- and trace them back/forwards to link up various lines:).that would be good!

jeeb
12-05-2009, 12:09 PM
I have found a marriage between Edward and Mary Rumbelow on IGI 25/4/1790 Isleham
Susanna (bap 11/12/1791)could have either been a first- or second born to that marriage!

- do you have access to the rest of their children's names/dob/various spellings???- or is there a site I can access???

Thanks

Hi Nicos,

These are baptisms at Isleham Cambs listing parents as Edward & Mary:-

Susanna TOLLODAY 11 Dec 1791
John TOLLEDAY 23 May 1793
John TOLLIDAY 7 June 1797
Edward TOLLEDY 5 June 1800

It is likely Edward Snr's father was a John. It is also probable the first John (1793) died.

This baptism is interesting but unless he was older at baptism it cannot be the Edward fathering these children:-

Edward TOLLIDAY son of John & Susan bap 25 Mar 1781 St. Peters, Sudbury, Suffolk.

Jeremy

Nicos
12-05-2009, 1:32 PM
hey- now that's interesting isn't it???...all the names interacting like that????

It wouldn't surprise me if Edward Snr was baptised at an older age- I've had a few family gatherings of multiple baptisms in a few of my trees- or being baptised just before marriage- but none so far in the Tolliday tree!

I think I need to try and find out who the children are of John b 1797 too and where they settled. I agree that John b1793 is most likely to have died.

I must have seen 40 ways of spelling the Tolliday name- from variations due to accents- to wrongly transcribed!

...and I thought that it'd be an easy line as there are so few Tollidays about!!!!:o

Thanks for your help;)

Nicos
12-05-2009, 1:40 PM
All 4 children appear on IGI !! ( I could only find Susanna and Edward):D