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kermie62
16-01-2009, 2:46 PM
I have been inspired by the previous post to finally staat tracing my Great grandfather Auguste/Auguste LAMOTTE .

I followed the link previously until it got me to this page

http://www.archives-lyon.fr/consulter_les_documents_en_ligne/pageLibre000110ed.html

My french for the fist time in my life has let me down. I cannot read or speak french

Can anyone help me?

My ancestor is Auguste LAMOTTE who accodring to his marriage certificate was 32 on 13 February 1899, born in Lyon France to Frederick LAMOTTE (printer) and Francoise TERRAS in the Catholic Chuch (His wife was Salvation Army and he was buried in the catholic cemetery section so I assume he was catholic)

Arent NSW marriage certificates wonderful when compared to english ones of the same vintage

I believe the details regarding his parents were given by him as on his death certificate 22 years later his mothers name is unknown

His first child was born November 12th 1899 and he was 33 then (a genuine wedding night conception?) and confirms place of birth as Lyon France.

Hs childrens names were Franciose, Albert, Aphonse, Charles and Louis

His registration as an Alien in 1917 gave his date of biirth as 16th June 1866 and his entry into Australia as 18 May 1881 ( I have always been curious as to the specificity of this date, knowing the exact day 35 years later) and birthplace lyon.

I did find a UGI listing for a Francoise TERRASON born 26 April 1834 in Lyon whose mother was of the same name (no father mentioned) but I have no proof she is a relative

Any hlep is appreciated or its long weeks using my french english dictionary

Lesley Robertson
16-01-2009, 3:14 PM
I have been inspired by the previous post to finally staat tracing my Great grandfather Auguste/Auguste LAMOTTE .

I followed the link previously until it got me to this page

http://www.archives-lyon.fr/consulter_les_documents_en_ligne/pageLibre000110ed.html

My french for the fist time in my life has let me down. I cannot read or speak french

Can anyone help me?

My ancestor is Auguste LAMOTTE who accodring to his marriage certificate was 32 on 13 February 1899, born in Lyon France to Frederick LAMOTTE (printer) and Francoise TERRAS in the Catholic Chuch (His wife was Salvation Army and he was buried in the catholic cemetery section so I assume he was catholic)

Arent NSW marriage certificates wonderful when compared to english ones of the same vintage

I believe the details regarding his parents were given by him as on his death certificate 22 years later his mothers name is unknown

His first child was born November 12th 1899 and he was 33 then (a genuine wedding night conception?) and confirms place of birth as Lyon France.

Hs childrens names were Franciose, Albert, Aphonse, Charles and Louis

His registration as an Alien in 1917 gave his date of biirth as 16th June 1866 and his entry into Australia as 18 May 1881 ( I have always been curious as to the specificity of this date, knowing the exact day 35 years later) and birthplace lyon.

I did find a UGI listing for a Francoise TERRASON born 26 April 1834 in Lyon whose mother was of the same name (no father mentioned) but I have no proof she is a relative

Any hlep is appreciated or its long weeks using my french english dictionary


Click on {acceder aux registres} centre screen
On the next screen enter some info on the table. You can select by hitting the downward arrow heads to the right of the boxes. I put {Lyon} by {Commune} and 1898-1901 by {anne}
Click {rechercher}
You then get a table of births (naissances) , marriages (obvious) and deaths {deces} and time periods. Select one of them and it takes you to pages of the register to browse through. There's lots of pages, but the surnames are given in bigger handwriting than the rest. On the screen with the actual register, there's a box top left that gives access to the various areas of Lyon (eg 2eme arrondissement is roughly 2nd area) - there's quite a few of them.
The tools down the left are (from top) zoom in, zoom out, select area, move image, turn anti clock, turn clock, print, change the brightness and contrast with sliders, etc. On the top right of the screen are the little arrows that let you change pages in the book.

It's going to take you a while to find the entry, then I suggest that if the system won't let you save (right click doesn't seem to do anything), print the entry to pdf if you can, or to paper and then scan it again. Then you cna put it into your BG photo album and we can see what it says.

good luck
Lesley

kermie62
16-01-2009, 3:29 PM
Thank you Lesley

pottoka
17-01-2009, 1:36 AM
Although smaller than Paris, Lyon is a big place and it has "arrondissements" like Paris. For the time period you are looking at there were six of them; there are nine now. Plus there was another district not considered an "arrondissement". This means a lot of records to look at even if you're only looking at the ten-year tables.

As you say you don't speak French, I had a go at finding Auguste Lamotte's birth, but I'm afraid I couldn't find him. There were a few Lamottes, but mostly female, with one Thomas and another probable male whose name was two abbreviations, like Wm for William (in English). But not Auguste.

Did he have another name? Is that why you put Auguste/Auguste Lamotte, meaning to make one different, like Augustin?

He could have been born in an outlying village to Lyon and given Lyon as his place of birth because it was the nearest big town. Having to spell out Charbonnières-les-Bains (just an example) any time he was asked might have put him off!

I can look again if you like, or you can just ignore me and know that he'll jump out at you as a blood relative. I know I sometimes take my sister along to do research with me, but I never want to believe her if she says she can't find someone. A case of the "if you want a job doing properly ..." mentality, although I know that I really have no reason to doubt her!

kermie62
17-01-2009, 4:18 AM
Thank you pottaka, I did have a go last night and it took me to photographs of pages of diocuments for one year that I checked for Lamottte but I couldnt be sure what I was seeing. It was a page with births for one year period with names on but that was the best I understand

AUguste had only one same but sometimes it was written as Auguste and sometimes as August. I think the AUgust is just the anglcisation of his name and that Augurste is the prioper sp

Any assistance you can give would be appreciated, I will keep trying to peck through the french documents,. the only trouble is that even f I do find something I may not klnow what is is I am looking at. My french ancestors are probaby screaming at me from on high.

PS I note that his father was a printer, would that have been a job outside of the major centres).

PS Thank your sister as well

tigercub
08-09-2009, 11:36 AM
Are you saying that Auguste was your legal ggrandfather? I know all the Lamotte family in Australia & you are not mentioned anywhere.

kermie62
09-09-2009, 12:16 AM
Are you saying that Auguste was your legal ggrandfather? I know all the Lamotte family in Australia & you are not mentioned anywhere.


Hello Tiger Cub,

I have had a look at your list of names and yes we are related. I am the great grandson of Auguste Lamotte and Alice/Alicia nee Sproule/Sprowle/Sprowle. My line comes down through his son Louis Lamotte and Thelma Buchanan. Yes you may not have heard about me, I was born on the wrong side of the blanket when those things were hidden. However I understand it was not such a family secret.

If you PM me I can give you some more information and I would like to exchange some information with you, I have made a great deal of progress on the Orpen line and the Strutt/Rolfe/Coombe connection. It is an amazing if complicated and tragic history this family has including a family curse by an Irish witch. I also have some contacts with cousins over the world .

Hear from you soon

tigercub
16-09-2009, 5:24 AM
I have been away visiting living relatives of my family. Regarding my List of Names I research. I enjoy research but when asked not to follow a Line, out of respect for the living relatives, I comply with their wishes. Family History throws out many challenges, such as with Jack Wallace Macpherson. I have read all the theories on him but I am pleased to say I have solved the mystery of his movements from 1828 until his burial. I was very close to Thelma & feel strongly about keeping her memories.In my capacity as a Librarian, I was taught that research was about investigating our pioneers & family in the past, not to use as an advantage to gain information & advantage of any living relatives & I don't give out my personal details to people I don't consider my family.

JAP1
16-09-2009, 11:22 AM
Hi kermie and tiger cub,

Very puzzled about what's going on here - but prefer not to know!

Though I guess if we followed only 'legal' relationships we'd miss out on quite a lot of interest.

I've been following this thread because one of my rells married a MOTT/DELAMOTTE - a name which tends to stick in one's head!

I can't access my genie program just at present but I know I've not traced them back to an Auguste.

The sister of my Ggpa (John George - George - BURKE) was Mary Ann BURKE b Ireland. In 1859 she married a Maurice Edward DAVIES in Victoria, Australia. One of their daughters, Elizabeth Emily, married a Melbourne Charnock Delamotte MOTT. Lots of newspaper connexions.

Anyway, good luck kermie!

Regards to both of you,

JAP

kermie62
17-09-2009, 12:34 AM
I think what you say Tigercub is a situation that is quite commonly encountered in family history. When you follow a line there is alwatys the chance of finding information that may be disturbing to the past lving. This we must treat with respect and care, peoples privacy should be respected and they should never be forced to learn information they do not wish to know or thier information given out to those they amay not wish. For example I never give my own genetic parental details out because of the circumstances of my birth and the people involve are still living. I do not even make unsolicted contact with the living family out of this respect, the people who do know, know me through being part of the family already and were oringinally introduce to me by my birth parent and then decided themselves to introduce me to parts of the family that were researching the family tree . Sort of networking. Having spent many weeks of pouring over films of parish records form the 1600's I certain hours pouring over films when I already know the living family details strikes me as a particular form of masochism lol. I think we as family historians must have our own set of ethics because of the nature of the material we handle is so sensitive.

That being said however, The living however cannot own the dead nor our genes and gentic history. It may be embaressing or shameful to the present which is why you dont tell that person if they dont wish to know. but they cant and should not shut off that line for research. It can sometimes even make a difference to the present.

The Jack Wallace Macpherson is a good example, I have been stymied by him as appears to be a swimmer to Australia . He is one of my brickwalls. The limited family history I have on him is that he was "an old drunk" who was rejected by his second wife and tthown out. I cannot find any details of his death and only a a suspect certificate for his birth. However the records from the education department show him as a teaqcher who was nt particularly capable but dedicated until he lost his baby son in Geralton and then two years later his wife in an isolated schoolhouse in the aunstralian bush leaving him with a 9 month old baby daughter. He then subsequently went down hill. In this light perhaps the family history of him is unkind and the later generations can reinvent who he was.

I am concerned that you have him back to his birth in 1828, according to the mariage certificate I have, he was in his thirties whe he got married in 1905 and he was defiantely still living when Thelma got maried in 1926 and I have records of him in the 1930's. He certainly would have ben well preserved for being around in 1828.

Congradulations on breaking that Macpherson brickwall, it still has me stymied. I have spent a lot of time on Thelmas mothers line, the Rolfes and spent over a year on it and although I broke the Strutt connection and traced the cousins in the US till the 1900 I am still having problems getting past Joseph Coombe and John Valentine Rolfe. I am glad you were close to Thelma, I met her a couple of times and she was an amazing person who I would have liked to met more. Her particular story is very amazing and I have found nothing of disrespect or family skeletons relating to her. I recently visited the school in Merridin to see where she went to school. However apar from Jack Wallace who remains a large unresolved lump awaiting further research, most of my research has been further up the tree, trying to get the Irish lines back in the 1600's and Thelmas great great grandparents in London in the 1780's - 1830's.. I moved away from Thelmas generation about 2 years ago.

As I say, if you wish any information please contact me, I have photos of Thelmas mother and grandmother if you wish copies them. There is no need for reciprocation. I am happy to give you any information. Otherwise I wish you well in your research

regards

Shenachie
29-09-2009, 6:46 AM
Are you saying that Auguste was your legal ggrandfather? I know all the Lamotte family in Australia & you are not mentioned anywhere.
Hi Tigercub
I have been following this forum with interest, Auguste Lamotte was my legal Grandfather & I have been researching my direct line for some time. I will send you a private message in regards to this so that we can have further contact & share Information.
Jack Wallace Macpherson was my legal Grandfather & I have also been researching my direct Line in connection to him. There have been assumptions made regarding his character, morals & intellect which I find offensive! It was interesting to note that you also have information about his life from 1928 until his death.( I note the typo 1828). Looking forward to a fruitful exchange!
Regards
Shenachie

kermie62
30-09-2009, 11:48 AM
Hi Shenachie,

If you have both the Lamotte line and the Macpherson line, we are certainly relatives.

I have a picture of Auguste if you dont have it, he was quite a handsome man.

If you are also a decendant of Jack Wallace and August you are definately from his second wife Elinor rather than his third wife Elizabeth Gill. I have a picture of Elinor Rolfe Macperson his second wife as well as her mother Ellen Buchanan/Coombe the daughter of Mary Toole the irish convict.

If you want more information about the family lines, we have a fourth cousin in Sydney called maureeen who ahs been researching the family and we have extensively researched the Elinors line.

Yes I agree with you about Jack Wallace, he is a mystery to me and one brickwall I am going to try to break one day. He was definately misunderstood. I only know what I have been told from limited contact with the family but if you look and see he was already a widower when he married elinor in 1905 so by 1909 when Elinor died, he had buried at least one son and two wives. Have you seen his Education department service record?. It is very enlighting about him and has a lot of information such as he was a teacher in NSW and owned his own school in Tasmania. It shows a man who was caring and dedicated if unskilled who after the loss of his wife went downhill.

My son and I did a road trip and visited Elinors grave in Narrogin, it was unmarked and undistinquishable from the bare earth, We made a small cairn and go back regualrly to change the flowers. We also visited the site of the school house at Minnining and Moolyoonooka, nothing much there but at Walkaway the old school hopuse, teachers quatrers and outdoor duunny remai. Have some pictures if you want them.

Good luck with your research and if I can help, please contact me