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lindarhead
05-11-2008, 2:19 PM
I am searching for info with regard to a Charles Farmer who was born in France in or around 1847, although is listed on UK census records from 1861 as a British subject-no census records can be found for the family for the 1851 census. He has older siblings, all born in the UK, two in the London area, and one in Stoke-on-Trent,Staffs, which is where the family are living on the 1861 census.

His father is William Farmer, and his mother Harriet, maiden name unknown. It has always been believed in the family that she was French,at present I have no confirmation of that. Their first child,William was born about 1838.

Charles subsequently married Martha Bagguley, and they lived in Stoke-on-Trent, Staffs.It is his birth and early years I am interested in. Also ,up to now I can find no matches for the death of a William Farmer in the UK, he does not appear on the 1861 census, was he killed in France maybe? I have no clue but maybe someone can tell me how I can find out.

Many thanks, Linda...:)

NickM
05-11-2008, 3:09 PM
The 1881 census lists Charles Farmer as (British Subject) France, so maybe he was born in a British Embassy in France to an English couple working and living in the embassy ?

lindarhead
05-11-2008, 3:53 PM
Well yes I can see that's possible, but I think, if I can recall from the earlier census records, that William, the father of Charles was a labourer,not the sort of chap who'd work in an Embassy and be able to take his family with him. Also the thing that puzzles me is that I cannot find a death for Wm in the UK yet the family were on the 1861 census in Stoke.Harriet and William are both recorded as being born in Surrey,yet family history has it that she's French.Personally I think that could be family myth, although I would love to be wrong about that...:)

lindarhead
05-11-2008, 4:48 PM
I checked the 1841 census,William was listed as a labourer,and he was recorded as being born in Croydon,Surrey, as was Harriet on that census. Is there any way I can check French birth records for Charles online? Tried on Ancestry but could only find records for the US & Canada beside the usual UK ones.Tried LDS too, which just gives me the 1881 census for Charles.I'm puzzled about this, I can't work out how he came to be born in France, they're clearly not a particularly wealthy family so wouldn't be likely to travel there simply for pleasure unless there was a family connection...would they?..:)

Retlaw
05-11-2008, 7:48 PM
[QUOTE=lindarhead;215325]I am searching for info with regard to a Charles Farmer who was born in France in or around 1847, although is listed on UK census records from 1861 as a British subject-no census records can be found for the family for the 1851 census. He has older siblings, all born in the UK, two in the London area, and one in Stoke-on-Trent,Staffs, which is where the family are living on the 1861 census.

Hi Linda.
Welcome to the fraterinty of French Births. My great Aunt is also listed as born in France British subject. Around the late 1840's the frogs got upety, as is their wont, and started chasing out of the country, all the British workers employed building the railways. My greatgrand father, his wife and young daughter were among those who fled, arriving back in England in 1849-50.

I think your Charles and his dad would be in the same situation, he might even have worked with my great granddad.

Took me 10 years to find him, never got to show the result to my father, he said thal neer find him. I did, the daft sod ended up living in pudding land.

[for them as don't know, pudding land is where we keep all the retards, some
people call it Yorkshire.]

Retlaw.
|biggrin||biggrin||biggrin||biggrin||biggrin|

lindarhead
05-11-2008, 8:12 PM
Hi, Retlaw,

Thanks for that, it makes perfect sense as William, the father, was listed as a labourer back in the UK in 1841. Charles must have been born whilst the family were out there. Do you know if there were many accidents resulting in death of the workers at that time, only I can't find any record of William's death here, and he certainly isn't on the 1861 census with the rest of the family? Where in France were the railways being built, nationally or in specific areas?

Thanks so much for helping me solve that part of the mystery, so much for the family myth that Harriet, Charles' mother was French. I was beginning to think it was simply a myth as on all the UK census records she's listed as being born in Croydon.Not very Francais!!..:)

Linda( not a pudding but a potteries lass! )...:)

pottoka
05-11-2008, 8:35 PM
Well yes I can see that's possible, but I think, if I can recall from the earlier census records, that William, the father of Charles was a labourer,not the sort of chap who'd work in an Embassy and be able to take his family with him.

A birth registered at the French Embassy doesn't necessarily mean that the parents were wealthy and/or travelling at the time or that they worked for the Embassy. It was just the way a British person registered the birth of a child in a foreign country so that the child would be British. I registered my own brats at the Embassy in the eighties so that they would be British as well as taking my husband's nationality.

Can you give the page reference for your Farmer family in 1841 and other years? I'd like to take a look. If any of them were born in France, you need at least the town of birth, then you can get a birth certificate from the Town Hall.



Around the late 1840's the frogs got upety, as is their wont, and started chasing out of the country, all the British workers employed building the railways.

Ey up Retlaw,
Watch it, mate |scold|
Those of us who live with them and even consent to breed tadpoles are allowed to call them Frogs (with a capital 'F', if you please) and slag them off. Those who live in the woolly wilds of the north ... aren't!!

lindarhead
05-11-2008, 8:47 PM
Hi, Pottaka,

No town in France given, but the UK census PRO refs are for 1841: HO 107/1078/5,Parish of Croydon,Page 16, district 2.
1861: Rg 9/1943 Stoke-on-Trent, Parish St.James.

Linda

Retlaw
05-11-2008, 11:20 PM
Ey up Retlaw,
Watch it, mate |scold|
Those of us who live with them and even consent to breed tadpoles are allowed to call them Frogs (with a capital 'F', if you please) and slag them off. Those who live in the woolly wilds of the north ... aren't!![/QUOTE]

Nay dorned blame me if tha daft enuff to liv wi yon lot, dunt matter wether its a big F or a little f, thur still frogs.

When we liberated france in 1944, we should have kicked em all out and kept it for our selves, they don't even talk reat, just badly mangled English.

Retlaw.

|jumphappy

pottoka
06-11-2008, 12:32 PM
Nay dorned blame me if tha daft enuff to liv wi yon lot, dunt matter wether its a big F or a little f, thur still frogs.



As I have already pointed out on Brit-Gen, I am part of an underground movement to reclaim France for the English. This is being carried out by stealth as we are slowly but steadily diluting the blood. Given that I am behind enemy lines, I consider that I should be treated with more respect.

pottoka
06-11-2008, 2:09 PM
Your Farmers are definitely elusive, Linda! Appearing on every second Census makes you think they had something to hide.

I'm afraid that, with no indication of the town where he was born, you have no chance of tracking him down in France. Otherwise, we could have written to the relevant Town hall and got the certificate for free (please note, Retlaw: a point in favour of the French). You'll have to keep your fingers crossed that there's more information on the 1911 Census!

I looked for William's death, between 1850 and 1860, and Charles' birth, between 1850 and 1855, in the Consular Indices on findmypast, but couldn't find any sign of either of them.

To find out Harriet's maiden name, you could order James' birth certificate. This has to be him, I think:
Name: James Farmer
Year of Registration: 1841
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Croydon
County: Greater London, Kent, Surrey
Volume: 4
Page: 97
You might be able to work out if she was French from her surname.

lindarhead
06-11-2008, 2:23 PM
Pottoka, very quick reply as I'm looking after my 4 year old grandson today and he wants me to play cars with him..:)

Last night I found the family, at least I think it's them,with the exception of Wm snr, on the 1851 census,in the workhouse!! A couple of them, if not all, are listed as being born in Worcestershire but all the names of mother and siblings match the ones on other census records,so I feel sure iit's them.It's the Spitals workhouse, Penkhull, Stoke-on-Trent.

Thanks for the info re James..I'll do that,

Linda..:)

Retlaw
06-11-2008, 2:46 PM
As I have already pointed out on Brit-Gen, I am part of an underground movement to reclaim France for the English. This is being carried out by stealth as we are slowly but steadily diluting the blood. Given that I am behind enemy lines, I consider that I should be treated with more respect.

Awreight then tha furgivun (touching forelock), but be carefull, thur crafty beggars ar yon lot, are they still on overtime at the white flag factory.

Retlaw.

pottoka
06-11-2008, 5:12 PM
Awreight then tha furgivun (touching forelock), but be carefull, thur crafty beggars ar yon lot, are they still on overtime at the white flag factory.

Retlaw.

Overtime? Are you mad? Haven't you heard of the 35-hour week? And I seem to recall seeing a news bulletin last night about which trains would be affected by the strikes today ...

By the way, my grandad, who came from Liverpuwle, took his wife, a Lancashire lass, home for the birth of their first child - because he was convinced it was going to be a boy and he wanted him to be able to play football for a certain team. There were rules about such things in those days. He was out of luck; it was a girl! http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/Happy/happy-french-077.gif (http://freesmileyface.net)

lindarhead
20-01-2009, 9:21 AM
Hi all, Just a brief update for those of you who helped me with my search for Charles Farmer, my 'British subject born in France.'
I finally found him! I was lucky enough to find out that he was born in Dieppe from an elderly relative, so I wrote,in my best French, to the town hall in Dieppe in December.On Saturday I received a letter from them, containing a copy of his original birth record. To say I was thrilled was an understatement. I can't read the whole document as my French is limited and also the copy is a little feint in places, but I can read the relevant parts. If anyone could help me with the translation of the whole document that would be great, but other than that, thanks for all your help.

Linda

pottoka
21-01-2009, 8:49 PM
http://bestsmileys.com/clapping/3.gif Congratulaions, Linda! You must be so pleased. What luck to find someone who could tell you where Charles was born.

If no-one else has come forward yet, I'll be happy to translate your "acte de naissance" for you.

lindarhead
21-01-2009, 8:54 PM
http://bestsmileys.com/clapping/3.gif Congratulaions, Linda! You must be so pleased. What luck to find someone who could tell you where Charles was born.

If no-one else has come forward yet, I'll be happy to translate your "acte de naissance" for you.
That would be fantastic,Pottoka!..:)...shall I email it to you?

Linda

lindarhead
23-01-2009, 9:36 PM
That would be fantastic,Pottoka!..:)...shall I email it to you?

Linda
I wanted to say a big online thank you to Pottoka!!!! so...THANK YOU!!!!!! for transcribing and translating my' acte de naissance' relating to Charles Farmer.It was great to finally get the confirmation of his birth and parentage that I was searching for. Hats off too, to the help I had from the town hall ( Marie) in Dieppe,they were brilliant.

So all of you out there in no-mans land ancestrally speaking..don't give up! The answers are there somewhere.

Linda...:)..one very happy amateur genealogist.