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View Full Version : My Shropshire Interests: GARNER, BAGNALL, PUGH



Trish
08-10-2004, 11:32 PM
Here's my short list of Shropshire interests:

GARNIER/GARNER: Madeley/Broseley area, 1840s, 1850s
BAGNALL: Madeley/Broseley, pre 1840s
PUGH: probably Broseley, early 1800s and before...

I have run smack into a solid brick wall with this branch and can't seem to take it back further than Walter Garner, a master mariner, born in 1842 in Madeley. His mother was Catherine A. Garner [nee Bagnall], born 1814 in Broseley.

But Walter's father's? He was deceased by the time of the 1871 census. Does SKS have access to the 1851 or 1861 census for Madeley who could maybe do a look up for me?

Apparently, these GARNERs were originally GARNIERs but the name was anglicized at some point after two brothers [Huguenots] fled to England from France.

I Would really appreciate any tips for digging deeper, especially with respect to the Huguenot theme.

Trish
Toronto, Canada

FredP
14-10-2004, 7:57 AM
You may be aware of this, as you say 'early 1800s' for PUGH interests, but I am posting in case not.
In the Pigot's 1828/29 directory for BROSELEY - GEORGE, JOHN and WILLIAM PUGH are shown individually as bricklayers.
SAMUEL PUGH was landlord of the PHEASANT public house.

I have noticed several GARNERs in the early part of the 18th century while looking through the parish registers for SHIFNAL, only a few miles away. There may well be others at a later date.

Hope some of this is useful.
Fred P.

Trish
15-10-2004, 5:35 PM
Thanks, Fred. No, I wasn't aware either of the Pigot's entries or of the Shifnal connection. I will look further into both. Much appreciated. There seem to be missing periods in the available online records for the Madeley area.

Regards,
Trish

MJHulme
17-10-2004, 10:13 PM
Hello Trish

The Shropshire FHS have indexed the 1851 census for about 60% of the county including the Madeley area. All the references are available on familyhistoryonline

I have looked at the index but your Catherine and Walter GARNER do not appear in it. I am not aware of any index for 1861. 1871 has been indexed by Ancestry

Mike

Trish
25-10-2004, 2:09 AM
Hello Trish

The Shropshire FHS have indexed the 1851 census for about 60% of the county including the Madeley area. All the references are available on familyhistoryonline

I have looked at the index but your Catherine and Walter GARNER do not appear in it. I am not aware of any index for 1861. 1871 has been indexed by Ancestry

Mike
Mike, thank you for doing the look up. I do appreciate it.

I'm starting to think that my GARNER family may have left Madeley sometime after Walter was born in 1842 although Catherine shows up as a widow in Madeley in the 1871 census. I like a challenge but I wish they weren't quite so elusive. It's proving to be very difficult to confirm the Huguenot connection.

Thank you again.

Trish

ann johnston
02-09-2005, 1:27 PM
Hi

i am very interested in you Bagnall family from Broseley do they turn into Bagleys by any chance later on in the censuses, just all mu family are from Broseley (bagley family) and as i hit 1851 1841 they appear to become Bagnalls

ann

Trish
03-09-2005, 12:05 AM
Hi

i am very interested in you Bagnall family from Broseley do they turn into Bagleys by any chance later on in the censuses, just all mu family are from Broseley (bagley family) and as i hit 1851 1841 they appear to become Bagnalls

annHi, Ann. Thanks for your response. I don't know too much about the BAGNALL side and whether they might have also been called BAGLEY.

Anything is possible...

Since I posted my message last October [where has the time gone?] I have learned that Catherine GARNER nee BAGNALL was a "schoolmistress" and she and her husband, John, a schoolmaster, moved around alot: from Madeley to Birmingham, Newent [Gloucestershire] and eventually to Plymouth. After her husband died, Catherine returned to Madeley for a few years. Her father's name was Isaac BAGNALL.

Can you give me some details on your BAGLEY family?

Trish

brendan
08-02-2007, 3:34 AM
Hi Trish,

Brendan Garner from Australia here - my ancestors, Joseph Garner (a stonemason) and family lived in Park Lane, Madeley - his sons including my gg grandfather (a carpenter) moved to Townsville, Australia in the 1880s, and they were not convicts!!

Whilst this is all I really know, does this help? If so is there any info you could share - living in Australia I have hit a brick wall as it relates to information in Madeley.

Cheers,

Brendan

MJHulme
09-02-2007, 10:44 AM
Hello All

Since my previous post on this thread the Shropshire FHS have completed the indexing of the 1851 census and it is now available on CD-ROM searchable by Surname and Forename plus Age for about half the entries.

Mike

brendan
10-02-2007, 12:51 PM
Hello again,

Further to my prior message I have discovered the following:

Garner memorials in St. Michael’s churchyard, Madeley

G29: Sacred in the memory of John, son of Thomas and Eleanor Garner, who departed this life June 13 1789. 1 year 7 months. Also Thomas their son, who departed this life February 16 1804. Aged 1 month. Ann, their daughter, departed this life January 21 1833. Aged 28 years. Mary wife of Benjamin Bell…(rest obliterated).

G153: In loving memory of Joseph Garner of Park Street, Madeley. Died Feb.28th 1875 aged 73 years
Also Sarah Garner, widow of above died Dec 23rd 1875 aged 74 years
Also James Garner, son of the above who died Dec 5th 1841 aged 3 years
Also John Garner, son of above died Feb 2nd 1863 aged 30 years
Also Thomas Garner son of above died Feb 4th 1878 aged 48 years

Joseph was my ggg grandfather - January 21 1833. Aged 28 years. Mary wife of Benjamin Bell…(rest obliterated).

G153: In loving memory of Joseph Garner of Park Street, Madeley. Died Feb.28th 1875 aged 73 years
Also Sarah Garner, widow of above died Dec 23rd 1875 aged 74 years
Also James Garner, son of the above who died Dec 5th 1841 aged 3 years
Also John Garner, son of above died Feb 2nd 1863 aged 30 years
Also Thomas Garner son of above died Feb 4th 1878 aged 48 years

Joseph was my ggg grandfather - this may not help your search, but thought I would supply (others may have relations from Joseph). I will conduct further research to see if Jospeh was a son of Thomas and Eleanor as the years on the surface appear to be correct.

Cheers,

Brendan

Trish
10-02-2007, 8:49 PM
Brendan,

Wooee, I'm very pleased to get your message!

I think there's a pretty good chance there's a close connection between our two Garner families. I suspect that your ggg grandfather Joseph and my gg grandfather John may have been brothers or at least somehow shared a common ancestor, maybe a grandfather.

The 1841 census lists only four Garner families in Madeley headed by your 40-year-old Joseph, my 25-year-old John, a 45-year-old James and a 70-year-old Thomas. Your Joseph, my John and Thomas were stone masons and James was a miner. I've long wondered if Joseph, James and John were all sons of Thomas and his wife Eleanor.

BTW, I have the information for the census years 1841 to 1901 -- let me know if you don't -- I'm happy to share it all with you -- plus a few bits more.

Trish

brendan
12-02-2007, 3:20 AM
Trish,

So let's assume, subject to confirmation, that Thomas and Eleanor Garner had the following children (min):

John born 1788
Joseph born 1802 (my ggg grandfather)
Thomas born 1804
Ann 1805

The dates fit and are in accordance with evidence - just need evidence now to confirm the link between Joseph and Thomas.

Furthermore Joseph and Sarah Garner had:

Thomas born 1830
John born 1833
James born 1838
Edmund born 1845 (my gg grandfather - born Madeley and died in Townsville, Australia)

Even the names are common so there has to be a link. The gap in years of birth don't really concern me as they had big families over the space of 20 years. Now even if Joseph was not a son of Thomas, they have to be related somehow - perhaps Thomas was an Uncle to Joseph?? We are getting there!!

Brendan

bristolloggerheads
08-03-2007, 3:05 PM
Hi
Do you have?

"In loving memory of Isabella Bagnall of Benthall who died 12 Jun 1876 aged 47 years. Also Martha mother of the above who died 1 May 1874 aged 74 years ......."

Peter
(Benthall Churchyard)

ann johnston
13-03-2007, 12:51 PM
Hi
Do you have?

"In loving memory of Isabella Bagnall of Benthall who died 12 Jun 1876 aged 47 years. Also Martha mother of the above who died 1 May 1874 aged 74 years ......."

Peter
(Benthall Churchyard)
HI

sorry to bother you but the above is my famly from broseley you dont have more info do you the family all originate in broseley going back as far as 1821 the name differences are bagnall/bagley

many thanks

ann

bristolloggerheads
13-03-2007, 7:48 PM
Ann,

You can find entries for these surnames in the Broseley registers back to 1592. The index lists Baggily, Bagley, Bagnall as well as Bailie, Baylie(s) and Bayley. Download the indices from the broseley.org.uk site to make sure you pick up all the entries. The site is only pre-1750 but the other registers are in Shropshire Archives. If you find a link to the other spellings then George Bayley was a shopkeeper in Broseley when he died in 1718. "Sope and tobacco and small things to sell"

Peter

ann johnston
14-03-2007, 12:55 PM
thanks for that info peter

i have been on the site for broseley

how do i get to the files that you have mentioned


many thanks


Ann

bristolloggerheads
14-03-2007, 4:21 PM
http://www.broseley.org.uk/registers/Broseley_Registers_idx.pdf
http://www.broseley.org.uk/registers/1700-50%20index.pdf

bristolloggerheads
07-05-2007, 10:06 PM
Also found this -
"Thomas Edwin Pugh 17th August 1868 aged 51 years; his wife Ellen 26th June 1900 aged 82 years"

(Broseley Baptish Chapel)

Trish
12-05-2007, 4:15 PM
Brendan,

Good news! I have recently received the marriage record for my gg grandfather, John GARNER, to Catherine Ann BAGNALL in 1837 in the district of Wellington in Shropshire. It indicates that John's father was Thomas GARNER, stone mason.

So, if your Joseph was also a son of Thomas and Eleanor, that makes him John's brother -- and you and I are related!

And, as I have just found a marriage record in the IGI [which I could swear wasn't there before] for a Thomas GARNER marrying an Eleanor PRICE in 1795 in Little Wenlock, I am now treasure hunting for PRICEs as well as GARNERs, BAGNALLs and PUGHs. Sigh. A family tree researcher's work is never done.

I have e-mailed you off-list with more or less this same information. Hope to hear from you soon!

Trish

bristolloggerheads
13-05-2007, 8:37 AM
FYI Probate Inventories survive for:
David Price alias Trickels Yeoman of Madeley 15 Dec 1680
Humphrey Price of Madeley 20 Oct 1747
Humphrey Price of Madeley 7 Aug 1758

and also

Andrew Pugh chandler of Broseley 22 Sep 1696
John Pugh Trowman of Broseley 11 Oct 1698
Thomas Pugh Trowman of Broseley 1 Oct 1719

Peter

bristolloggerheads
14-06-2007, 9:39 PM
"A house and garden near the Delph in Broseley at the yearly rent of 10/-"

Stephens Valuation of 1793

bristolloggerheads
04-07-2007, 6:30 PM
John Pugh signed the 1642 Protestation for Benthall.

IAN PUGH
02-01-2008, 2:43 PM
I have just registered and not sure if I am doing this correctly but I have a Pugh family tree from Shropshire to Townsville to South Africa if you are interested.

Regards,
Ian

Trish
03-01-2008, 5:38 PM
FYI Probate Inventories survive for:
David Price alias Trickels Yeoman of Madeley 15 Dec 1680
Humphrey Price of Madeley 20 Oct 1747
Humphrey Price of Madeley 7 Aug 1758

and also

Andrew Pugh chandler of Broseley 22 Sep 1696
John Pugh Trowman of Broseley 11 Oct 1698
Thomas Pugh Trowman of Broseley 1 Oct 1719

Peter


"A house and garden near the Delph in Broseley at the yearly rent of 10/-"

Stephens Valuation of 1793


John Pugh signed the 1642 Protestation for Benthall.Peter, I just came across your postings [above] with more information on Prices and Pughs of Broseley. Thank you! I do appreciate these nuggets. I don't know how, where or if they fit into my family tree but I will keep on file just in case.

BTW, do you know what the 1642 Protestation for Benthall was all about? I will Google to see what comes up.

Thanks again and Happy New Year!

Trish

Trish
03-01-2008, 5:43 PM
I have just registered and not sure if I am doing this correctly but I have a Pugh family tree from Shropshire to Townsville to South Africa if you are interested.

Regards,
IanYep, correctly done. Welcome aboard, Ian.

I'm interested in Pughs from Shropshire especially around the Broseley area. Can you give us some more details on your Pughs -- names, ages, years, etc.?

BTW, is the Townsville you reference in Australia?

TIA,
Trish

IAN PUGH
03-01-2008, 8:38 PM
Yep, correctly done. Welcome aboard, Ian.

I'm interested in Pughs from Shropshire especially around the Broseley area. Can you give us some more details on your Pughs -- names, ages, years, etc.?

BTW, is the Townsville you reference in Australia?

TIA,
Trish


Yes I can let you have the details. I just have to find your email address.

Yes again. The Townsville is in Queensland Australia. I have 4 generations is Shropshire, One in Townsville then 4 in South Africa.

Regards,
Ian

brendan
07-01-2008, 2:30 AM
Yes I can let you have the details. I just have to find your email address.

Yes again. The Townsville is in Queensland Australia. I have 4 generations is Shropshire, One in Townsville then 4 in South Africa.

Regards,
Ian
Ian,

Hi from Townsville, Australia. I am curious, when you refer to a generation in Australia, whom? As per prior postings, my gg grandfather, Edmund, son of Joseph Garner, came out to Australia in the 1880s from Madeley. He had 2 brothers, John and George, who also came out to Australia, but I have not as yet tracked their adventures. In the event, and similiar to Trish, that there is a direct link you have many Garner relatives in Townsville. Let me know as I am quite interested.

bristolloggerheads
07-01-2008, 6:55 PM
"BTW, do you know what the 1642 Protestation for Benthall was all about? I will Google to see what comes up."

The House of Lords hold the copyright to the Protestation which was signed by all those loyal to the King and the Protestant faith and will send you a copy for a small fee. It also lists those who refused to sign it! The Benthall one appears to be roughly geographic and where several of the same family sign you can presume by the order whether they shared a household or lived separately. There are about 80 males who signed. The Broseley and Madeley ones survive too.

Peter

IAN PUGH
08-01-2008, 1:26 PM
Ian,

Hi from Townsville, Australia. I am curious, when you refer to a generation in Australia, whom? As per prior postings, my gg grandfather, Edmund, son of Joseph Garner, came out to Australia in the 1880s from Madeley. He had 2 brothers, John and George, who also came out to Australia, but I have not as yet tracked their adventures. In the event, and similiar to Trish, that there is a direct link you have many Garner relatives in Townsville. Let me know as I am quite interested.

Hi Brendan, I am sorry but it is all Pugh. Samuel, Charles, Samuel, Charles all Shropshire. The last Charles moved ( or was sent)to Townsville where my Grandfather William was Born. I have a copy of his birth certificate and a photograph of an old Hotel which they owned. William then moved to Durban South Africa where Charles (my father) was born. From there it is Ian (me), David and now my three week old grandson Blake.

bristolloggerheads
12-01-2008, 2:05 PM
John Pugh signed the 1642 Protestation for Benthall.

John Pew complied the Inventory of Hugh Jones, trowman, of Broseley in 1689.
Adam Stokes, trowman of Broseley died in 1675. His widow Elizabeth married fellow trowman John Pugh in 1676. Elizabeth's daughter Jane b. 1668 (from her first marriage,) married George Bradley, trowman of Benthall in 1689.

bristolloggerheads
15-12-2008, 9:01 PM
An indenture of the Broseley Estate dated 1822 has:
"and also on or upon a Garden to a Dwelling House now in the occupation of Isaac Bagnall containing by estimation two roods or thereabouts and numbered in the said Map 46 and also in or upon a Garden to a Dwelling House now in the occupation of William Pugh containing by estimation one rood thirteen perches or thereabouts and numbered in the said map 47"

MartinM
16-12-2008, 9:17 PM
Just come across this thread which is really intereting to me.

I have a whole bunch of Pugh ancestors from Madeley (and an even bigger bunch of gaps!)

If any of you are interested, then feel free to check through my database on my web pages.

Best wishes for the festive season.

Martin

Trish
17-12-2008, 4:43 AM
An indenture of the Broseley Estate dated 1822 has:
"and also on or upon a Garden to a Dwelling House now in the occupation of Isaac Bagnall containing by estimation two roods or thereabouts and numbered in the said Map 46 and also in or upon a Garden to a Dwelling House now in the occupation of William Pugh containing by estimation one rood thirteen perches or thereabouts and numbered in the said map 47"Hey, Peter, thanks for this. Just possibly, this Isaac Bagnall is Catherine A. Bagnall's father and, therefore, my ancestor. The timeframe is right. Also, Catherine's mother's maiden name was Pugh. Maybe William Pugh and Isaac Bagnall were related by marriage. Gives me something to go on. Thanks again!

Trish

Trish
17-12-2008, 4:56 AM
Just come across this thread which is really intereting to me.

I have a whole bunch of Pugh ancestors from Madeley (and an even bigger bunch of gaps!)

If any of you are interested, then feel free to check through my database on my web pages.

Best wishes for the festive season.

MartinHi Martin. I just looked at your database. Wow! Lots of surnames. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about my Pughs for even a wild-assed guess as to whether there could be a connection to your Pughs! Pardon my ignorance of Shropshire geography but do you know if Dawley Magna [where most of your Pughs lived] is close to Madeley and Broseley [where mine lived]?

Trish

bristolloggerheads
17-12-2008, 8:13 PM
Trish yes consider them close. Broseley is on the south side of the Severn facing Madeley on the north. Dawley is also that side.

Peter

MartinM
18-12-2008, 5:58 PM
Trish,

Dawley and Madeley are very close, and a number of my Pugh ancestors married into families from both Madeley and Broseley.

I will be happy to try and cross reference yours and mine if that helps.

Have a great Christmas
Martin

Trish
10-01-2009, 3:08 PM
Trish,

Dawley and Madeley are very close, and a number of my Pugh ancestors married into families from both Madeley and Broseley.

I will be happy to try and cross reference yours and mine if that helps.

Have a great Christmas
MartinThanks, Martin. All I have been able to compile [but not absolutely confirm] on the BAGNALL side is the following:

Isaac BAGNALL and Catherine PUGH married 1807 Sutton Maddock
Children:
-- Eliza BAGNALL, christened 1808
-- Jonas BAGNALL, chr. 1812
-- Catherine A. BAGNALL chr. 1814*
-- William Jones BAGNALL, chr. 1816*
-- Helen BAGNALL, chr. 1817*

*All Saint Leonard, Broseley

See any connections with yours?

Happy New Year!
Trish

bristolloggerheads
10-01-2009, 5:01 PM
Hey, Peter, thanks for this. Just possibly, this Isaac Bagnall is Catherine A. Bagnall's father and, therefore, my ancestor. The timeframe is right. Also, Catherine's mother's maiden name was Pugh. Maybe William Pugh and Isaac Bagnall were related by marriage. Gives me something to go on. Thanks again!

Trish

There is also a 1793 Valuation of the Broseley Estate which does not list any Bagnalls but does list:
"Pugh Joseph A House and Garden near the Delph in Broseley at the yearly rent of 10/-"

bristolloggerheads
10-01-2009, 5:04 PM
Apologies for repeating myself

Trish
11-01-2009, 12:18 AM
Trish yes consider them close. Broseley is on the south side of the Severn facing Madeley on the north. Dawley is also that side.

PeterThanks, Peter. Of course, I should have just taken a look for myself on Google Maps -- as I have now done...

But you provide what maps can't always -- those extra, very useful --invaluable, even -- gems of information. If people lived on opposite sides of the river, were they able to go back and forth easily or was it a significant divide? Going by christening and marriage records, I would say my ancestors seemed to have gone back and forth between Broseley and Madeley as if they were one town.

Thanks again,
Trish

Trish
11-01-2009, 12:19 AM
Apologies for repeating myselfNone needed. It's a good jog that this is something I should look into more when I have a chance.

bristolloggerheads
11-01-2009, 9:03 AM
I also came across a William Pugh, gent, of Coalport in an indenture.

Trish
11-01-2009, 7:39 PM
I also came across a William Pugh, gent, of Coalport in an indenture.Did you get a year, by any chance?

bristolloggerheads
13-01-2009, 8:17 PM
The year was 1851

Trish
14-01-2009, 5:13 AM
The year was 1851Thank you muchly.