PDA

View Full Version : Loose



JJOP
21-11-2007, 1:45 AM
Is there any one out there who can help on information re a very elusive Florence Loose; All I have is a birth certificate for my mother (deceased) which has" father Arthur Spencer Harvey 34years,born Nelson, N.Z. and mother Florence Harvey formerly Loose 22 years, born Brancaster Staithe England, Year of marriage 1911. My mother was born on 3/11/1912 in Adelaide. Their apparently is no record of a marriage in Adelaide. Death of Florence was definitely in Adelaide, but there is no record under her married name ( alias deHarvie). I did not think to check under maiden name, or maybe a defacto "Back" The death would have occured about 1928/1929 when my mum was 16.

christanel
21-11-2007, 2:47 AM
Is this the Florence who was with her family in 1901 census in Brancaster Staithe, Brancaster?

RG13/1880 Folio 90 page 14.

Henry head 57 fisherman, wife Christina 54, Rose 17, Arthur 16, Ernest 15, Bernard 12, Ethel 10, Florence 8. All born Staithe

This is an interesting page as at the top is a Harvey family and at the bottom of the page another Loose family the head of which is Selina? Loose widow 79 and a grandson William is also a fisherman.
Also on the previous page another Loose family also fishermen.

If this is your Florence then she lied about her age when she married Arthur. She would have been 17/18.
I wonder when and with whom she sailed to Australia. Or did she, like me, go to NZ and then Australia
Christina

JJOP
21-11-2007, 5:49 AM
I saw that on ancestry & originally disregarded it because of the age, then thought maybe? but am beginning to think maybe. I have found a photo of a group of houses, with the names C Winterbones, E Winterbones,Harry Loose, my house, Wm Loose written in ink above each house.On the back is written in ink "the "green" & in pencil "my mother lived here before coming to Adelaide to live with an Auntie also Edna sister to Florence"(this is in my mother's hand writing, but the words "the green" I'm not sure about). I have seen on the census forms that lots of Looses lived on "The Green".

JJOP
21-11-2007, 6:43 AM
I have found a reference to a Florence Loose emigrating to Australia on the ship Geelong,departing London 2March 1909, age 21; port at which Passengers have contracted to land: Adelaide. The timing and age could be correct. No other Looses or Harvey on the same page.Her contract ticket number is 300, directly underneath is a Chas D Ball, engineer, ticket no 366 ( Harvey was allegedly"" a mining expert". These are the only records of a Florence that I've been able to locate so far.

christanel
21-11-2007, 9:09 AM
Hi again
I did a quick search of the 1881/91 census records and couldn't find an Edna Loose who your mum says was her sister and was already in Austrlai with an aunt. In fact the only birth of an Edna Loose on FreeBMD was in 1911 reg district Docking and mother's maiden name Mitchell.
Of course FBMD is not complete but the census records for and Edna Loose back this up.
I wonder if your mum could have meant her mother's sister Ethel who was 2 years older than Florence or Emily b 1877 who appears on the 1891 census with Henry and Christina (and various other spellings) and John b1879 and Henry b1881.
Harry Loose in the photo could be Henry brother of Florence.
I can't help you with your research in SA as I am not familiar with what is available. The only experience I have had is with NSW and at least their BMD's are on line.
Did you find a death for Arthur Spencer Harvey at all?
I'm sorry I am not really much help but because your information is from your mother's birth certificate I would say that you are on the right track with the Florence we both found even though the age is a few years out.
There are only 4/5 Florence Loose's in the census 1861 to 1901 and only one in the correct place and time .
Good luck with it
Christina

JJOP
22-11-2007, 12:06 AM
Thanks so much Christina; not much info makes things difficult doesn't it? Mum was always told her father died in WW1, but there seems to be no trace of him in records, either in Aus or N.Z., but that sounds better than a disappearing husband doesn't it?
Jenny

ChristineR
22-11-2007, 7:22 AM
Thanks so much Christina; not much info makes things difficult doesn't it? Mum was always told her father died in WW1, but there seems to be no trace of him in records, either in Aus or N.Z., but that sounds better than a disappearing husband doesn't it?
Jenny

Hi JJOP


FOUND HIM :D

HARVEY Arthur : Service Number - 2257 : Place of Birth - Takaka NZ : Place of Enlistment - Perth WA : Next of Kin - (Wife) HARVEY Florence

A letter in the file from Charles Harvey Johnson ( a nephew) gives his full name - middle name Spencer - this fellow wished to claim his medals in 1967. It states that Arthur died in England 8 Nov 1924. There is a large file digitalized online - his middle name also appears in files too, so I do not know why it is not in the index entry.

He was a Mining Manager when enlisted in 1914, almost 37yrs old. His home address was then Adelaide, SA. Another attestation in 1915 has them in WA.

He was discharged in London in 1916 (or 1917)- he must never have come back. His intended place of residence was South Africa - he was a mining engineer. He was medically unfit to serve after being wounded in Egypt. He has a reference to the Boer War in the marks on his body - scar of a bullet wound in the thigh. Also had NZ silver fern tattooed on his arm.

In 1920 his address was Gillingham, Kent.

In 1915 a telegram was sent to Florence in Western Australia advising that he was in hospital - so perhaps Florence has died in WA, not Adelaide.

1916 - his address was Kings Lyn, Norfolk.

There is no correspondence from Florence, so she was not concerned about his non- return.

http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch.aspx

ChristineR :)
Australia

christanel
22-11-2007, 9:02 AM
|jumphappyOh wow ChristineR you are fantastic. JJOP will be over the moon. I know I am and it isn't even my family. Thanks for putting the web site address in. Another one for me to spend hours browsing. I haven't had to do too much research in Australia as all my lot only moved to NZ in 1961 and I came here in '63 and my Aussie husband's tree was done by others to a great degree and what I did have to find and/or check was in NSW.
A terrific end to my day.
Christina

Geoffers
22-11-2007, 9:26 AM
I have found a photo of a group of houses, with the names C Winterbones, E Winterbones,Harry Loose, my house, Wm Loose written in ink above each house.

The names you have listed, LOOSE, WINTERBONE, HARVEY all stood out as frequently occurring in Norfolk.

I would think the photo refers to Ernest WINTERBONE, a fisherman who lived on Main Road, Brancaster in 1901. He had a brother called Charles and the two of them lived on the Green in 1891.

In 1891 they lived next to the Victory Inn where Thomas LOOSE was landlord with a son William, and two doors away was Robert LOOSE with his son William. Also nearby was another William LOOSE, also with a son William in 'Island House'.

You might find a mention of the Victory on the Norfolk Pubs web-site
http://www.norfolkpubs.co.uk/index.htm
The Victory is now closed and is called Dial House, it's the National Trust Activity Centre
http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/main/w-vh/w-visits/w-findaplace/w-brancaster.htm

You can get an old map of the area on
http://www.old-maps.co.uk/

GeoffD
22-11-2007, 9:30 AM
Because of the mention of a Boer War wound, I had a quick look at the Boer War nominal rolls for Australian enlistments http://www.awm.gov.au/nominalrolls/boer/ and there are two Arthur Harvey names, but neither appears to be the correct one.

Checked the NZ Boer War embarkation http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/war/saw-database

No Arthur Harvey there. So maybe he enlisted in the English contingent.

ChristineR
22-11-2007, 10:44 AM
Because of the mention of a Boer War wound, I had a quick look at the Boer War nominal rolls for Australian enlistments http://www.awm.gov.au/nominalrolls/boer/ and there are two Arthur Harvey names, but neither appears to be the correct one.

Checked the NZ Boer War embarkation http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/war/saw-database

No Arthur Harvey there. So maybe he enlisted in the English contingent.

GeoffD

I didn't think to follow that up - good thinking - but I went back and reread his file

He says in his WW1 attestation in Australia that he served six years with the New Zealand Mounted Rifles, seeing 3 years active service, including a couple of months in 11th Batt Machine Gun section.

He has two attestation papers - the second says he was born Nelson, NZ
And now he says Canadian Scouts Burghes Horse

It is his discription, the tattoos and bullet wound in the thigh that indicate he is the same person! Sounds like he was fond of adventure.


JJOP will be over the moon. I know I am and it isn't even my family.

Christina, yes I am sure that she will be pleased. I was pleased with myself too. That Archives site is a great place to get clues - I cracked my maternal grandfather's true identity with it :D and some help from BG Forums.

ChristineR

Geoffers
22-11-2007, 11:39 AM
A letter in the file from Charles Harvey Johnson ( a nephew) gives his full name - middle name Spencer - this fellow wished to claim his medals in 1967. It states that Arthur died in England 8 Nov 1924.

Arthur's death is recorded in the GRO index

1924 September qtr
HARVEY, Arthur S. Aged 46
District - Christchurch. Volume 2b Page 777

A copy of the certificate can be ordered via the GRO
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

For a small fee you can download his medal card from TNA's documentsonline
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/default.asp

ChristineR
23-11-2007, 1:42 AM
His file in Australia states his two periods of service here.
One in the 11th Batt for a year, the other in the Royal Engineers. His 1914/1915 medal was sent from Melbourne to him, in Kent.

There is a copy of the letter from the London War Office in regards his other medals issued from there - he was then Lieut Arthur Spencer Harvey, Royal Engineers. Still the same Australian Number 2257
So that will make it easier to find his medal card. No Military Cross mentioned (his nephew thought he had earned one in France with the Royal Engineers).

His Australian file makes very interesting reading.

JJOP, to find it easily - put in the keywords section on the search page
Arthur Harvey 2257
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch.aspx

ChristineR

JJOP
23-11-2007, 4:12 AM
http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/images/smilies/sm2-jumphappy.gif
|jumphappy You don't know how happy I am to find all this information. Thank you so very much. I only wish my mother was still alive so she could know this.At the moment I am still trying to digest the fact that everybody has been so clever and helpful to a "newbie"who doesn't know how to go about this researching correctly and I actually have some ancestors!

Geoffers
23-11-2007, 9:01 AM
A couple more things

GRO birth index
June 1893
LOOSE, Florence Elizabeth
Docking, vol 4b page 315
(Docking is the name of the district which contains Brancaster)

Online maps will help if you are not familair with this area, try:
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/

Brancaster Staithe web-site
http://www.brancasterstaithe.co.uk/

Also, Norfolk (like many parts of the country) has its own dialect. It isn't as strong as it used to be, but many local words still survive. Just out of interest in the survival of dialects, I wonder if Florence passed onto your mum, who then passed onto you any words or phrases which you can remember which seem odd? Did she, for example use the word 'together' or 'do' a lot in sentences? Or did she ever refer to a bishey-barney-bee, a dickey, dodman or harnser. Did she ever point out a mawkin? Did she like a bit of a mardle or tell someone "thass a load o'ole squit?"

GeoffD
23-11-2007, 10:00 AM
If you search for info about the Canadian Scouts, they were a rip-roaring bunch of adventurers from all over the place, not just Canada.

http://www.civilization.ca/cwm/boer/canadianscouts_e.html

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-conflicts-periods/other/canadian_scouts.htm

christanel
24-11-2007, 12:06 AM
I would just like to say thank you to all on this thread for opening up so many new areas of research to me. Best thing I ever did throwing in my measly twopence worth at the beginning.
Christina

ChristineR
24-11-2007, 12:57 AM
A letter in the file from Charles Harvey Johnson ( a nephew)

Just further on this man - he and two brothers, who were killed in action, also served in WW1 - their files online.

Looking at the NSW BDMs online, they are the children of George Johnson and Alice E, all three born in the 1890s at Wallsend, NSW. I expect that they are related to Arthur's side since he has Harvey as a middle name, Alice might be his sister?

Christina, no contribution is ever measly! |scold|

ChristineR :)

christanel
24-11-2007, 10:05 PM
Christina, no contribution is ever measly! |scold|


Scold noted ChristineR and now I am a one star contributer to these forums.;)
And just yesterday I drove a friend to Wallsend to look at some depression glass.
Today I recover from too many wines whilst watching the election results last night.
Christina

JJOP
26-11-2007, 10:20 AM
Once again thank you to all for the information re Arthur. I have downloaded his army records and spent the weekend looking at them; the address given in his attestation papers for his South Australian sign up is the same as is on my mother's birth certificate; wife is also stated as Florence. Terrific. I have also communicated with the son of the "nephew". Needless to say Charles is dead, but his son, in his 70's was a lovely fellow but said he didn't know anything about that side of the family. A piece of the puzzle is completed! A few more to do though
Regards Jenny

JJOP
26-11-2007, 10:27 AM
To Geoffers and GeoffD, thank you for your help too! In reply to your inquiry re phrases, I can't remenber mum having any slightly different, such as mentioned

hbox
14-07-2008, 7:42 PM
Hello - I've just started tracing our family tree and picked up your enquiry from a Google search for "Victory Brancaster". My maternal grandmother, Clara Softly (born 1885) was the grandaughter of Thomas Loose the publican of the Victory. She appears in the 1901 census as a visitor (staying in another property) and (I presume her brother) is in the 1881 census as Thomas's grandson William Softly. An old article in "Norfolk Fair" refers to a number of Loose family members, not all necessarliy related, in Brancaster between 1900 up until today.

Any info on Loose's or Softly's (or Hipkin's from Fakenham, Norfolk) gratefully recieved
HBOX





Is there any one out there who can help on information re a very elusive Florence Loose; All I have is a birth certificate for my mother (deceased) which has" father Arthur Spencer Harvey 34years,born Nelson, N.Z. and mother Florence Harvey formerly Loose 22 years, born Brancaster Staithe England, Year of marriage 1911. My mother was born on 3/11/1912 in Adelaide. Their apparently is no record of a marriage in Adelaide. Death of Florence was definitely in Adelaide, but there is no record under her married name ( alias deHarvie). I did not think to check under maiden name, or maybe a defacto "Back" The death would have occured about 1928/1929 when my mum was 16.

ChristineR
17-07-2008, 10:40 AM
Welcome to the forum Hbox
|wave|

JJOP hasn't posted in a little while, but is still around having last visited yesterday - when one checks the user profile. If you do not hear from her you can contact her by email or PM (Private message)

Just left click on Jenny's user name, and select either option from the blue drop down box that appears.

Good luck with your research.

ChristineR :)

JJOP
20-07-2008, 1:39 AM
Hello - I've just started tracing our family tree and picked up your enquiry from a Google search for "Victory Brancaster". My maternal grandmother, Clara Softly (born 1885) was the grandaughter of Thomas Loose the publican of the Victory. She appears in the 1901 census as a visitor (staying in another property) and (I presume her brother) is in the 1881 census as Thomas's grandson William Softly. An old article in "Norfolk Fair" refers to a number of Loose family members, not all necessarliy related, in Brancaster between 1900 up until today.

Any info on Loose's or Softly's (or Hipkin's from Fakenham, Norfolk) gratefully recieved
HBOX

You are right HBOX; there are lots and lots of Loose's, especially in Brancaster.
I'm still working out who is related to whom. In the 1891 census there is a reference to a William Softly, Head, Widow, 35, a son William, 12, an Eliza, daughter, possibly 10 and another daughter whose name I cannot work out, 8.They are listed below a Thomas Loose, fisherman. I am still awaiting a certificate to confirm that this Thomas is a brother of Henry Loose, also fisherman. I have seen the page about the Victory; another licensee was a Robert Skipper - if its the same Robert he married an Elizabeth Loose; the 1871 census has this one's address as the Victory Inn, occupation as ?? Keeper and fisherman; once again am awaiting a marriage certificate to prove she is the sister of my henry and thomas. I'm afraid I can't much- you just have to keep digging patiently.
To all those who helped me I know have certificates proving the parentage of my Florence and am now slowly collecting other's to get a picture of the family
Jenny:)

jbenefer
24-08-2008, 8:24 PM
Hi Christina,

In your message you mentioned 'Harry Loose'. My Mum remembers him as her uncle (he could charm worts), but I can't find him in my family tree - nearest is Henry Loose. Mum's grandmother was Rose Loose and she knows for a fact Harry called her his sister. Most likely Harry was not his birth name, so I'm trying to place him.

You mentioned a photo with Harry in it - this would be fantastic - would happily trade some of my Mum's stories about him for a copy!

I have a comprehensive family tree on genesreunited and have communicated several times with my S. Australia relations :)

BTW, my daugher's name is Christina :)

Hope to hear from you soon - direct email would be fine.

best regards
Jim Benefer
Great Grandson of Rose Loose and Herbert Sutherland of Brancaster


Hi again
I did a quick search of the 1881/91 census records and couldn't find an Edna Loose who your mum says was her sister and was already in Austrlai with an aunt. In fact the only birth of an Edna Loose on FreeBMD was in 1911 reg district Docking and mother's maiden name Mitchell.
Of course FBMD is not complete but the census records for and Edna Loose back this up.
I wonder if your mum could have meant her mother's sister Ethel who was 2 years older than Florence or Emily b 1877 who appears on the 1891 census with Henry and Christina (and various other spellings) and John b1879 and Henry b1881.
Harry Loose in the photo could be Henry brother of Florence.
I can't help you with your research in SA as I am not familiar with what is available. The only experience I have had is with NSW and at least their BMD's are on line.
Did you find a death for Arthur Spencer Harvey at all?
I'm sorry I am not really much help but because your information is from your mother's birth certificate I would say that you are on the right track with the Florence we both found even though the age is a few years out.
There are only 4/5 Florence Loose's in the census 1861 to 1901 and only one in the correct place and time .
Good luck with it
Christina

christanel
24-08-2008, 9:43 PM
Hello Jim
People given the birth name Henry were often called Harry so the Henry/Harry mentioned in my post on the 1881 census is one and the same person - Florence and Rose were his sisters as per the census records. Do you have these records? The photo you refer to was mentioned by the originator of this post JJOP whose grandmother was Florence, Harry and Rose's sister. It isn't actually of people but of the houses they lived in. You will have to contact her about it.
I will email you privately.
Christina

pearlpinkie
12-06-2014, 3:10 PM
Hi Jim, I am the great-granddaughter of Arthur Loose (Rose's younger brother). I would love to be in touch.

Best wishes,
Zoe
South coast, England