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emmaoxley
16-10-2007, 12:19 AM
Having traced my Grandads family back to the 1600's I thought I would have a go at my nanna's family but I seem to have come to a brick wall.

I know her mother was called Annie Eliza Cole (1883-1969) of Newbury, Berkshire and she married a Henry Green (c1886) of Holbeck in Leeds. Annie's parents were Ann(e) Howard and Benjamin Cole (D.O.B. not known) also from Berkshire. I have checked the census records but no luck and it gets expensive to check Births, marriages and deaths when I don't have dates of birth.

Any advice would be appreciated :D

birdlip
16-10-2007, 1:15 AM
Hi there,

I've had a quick look, but can't find them on census returns as yet.

How sure are you of Annies birth details? I can't even find her on freebmd. In fact there don't seem to be any Coles born anywhere in Berkshire in 1883, though there are lots for other years. Checked for Annie Eliza no surname Berks 1882-4, and it came up with Annie Eliza Jacobs b Newbury Dec qu 1883. I thought she was worth looking up in 1891 and 1901, sometimes a child is registered with a different surname, e.g. if born before the marriage, or if there's a second marriage. However she's there in both years with the Jacobs family, mum and dad John and Caroline, no apparent links with Coles.

I couldn't find a Benjamin Cole born in Berkshire, 1837-63 either, so it looks like he was b outside the county.

I'll keep looking...

regards birdlip

birdlip
16-10-2007, 1:23 AM
...nor can I find a marriage for Benjamin Cole and Ann(e) Howard!

emmaoxley
16-10-2007, 1:43 AM
Wow thank you for the quick response.

I'm pretty sure of the dates for Annie Eliza Cole as they were apparently on the back of a photo, although I can re-check the details with an uncle who has all the family pictures.

I have checked the Yorkshire BMD site which I found from a link on another thread on this site and found a Marriage certificate for Henry Green and Annie E Cole in 1904 but nothing other than that, I have even tried google to look for info but as you said there is no trace of her parents Ann Howard or Benjamin Cole - I have had to assume they were from Newbury as this is what was written on Annie's photo. Unless there is another Newbury other than in Berkshire?

birdlip
16-10-2007, 1:56 AM
I think I have her;

Cole Annie Eliza, Jun quarter 1883 KINGSCLERE 2c 226

Kingsclere registration district is in Hampshire, but right on the border. In fact, in the notes, it mentions it includes the civil parish of Newtown, transferred from Newbury district in 1895, so it must be the next door reg district to Newbury.

regards birdlip

emmaoxley
16-10-2007, 2:10 AM
Thats great - thank you so much ;)

birdlip
16-10-2007, 2:27 AM
No trouble, I enjoy a challenge!!

If that is your Annie, this looks like the family in 1901;

RG13; 4047; 13; P17
'cottage', Green Hammerton, Whixley, Yorkshire

Benjamin Cole 46 head widr gardener domestic b Lincolnshire South (could be Louth?)
Ruth H Cole 22 dau s fathers housekeeper b Hants Highclere
Benjamin Cole 15 son gardeners labourer b do do
Selina Cole 14 dau b Bucks Slough
Hannah Cole 11 dau b do do
Emma Cole 9 dau b do do

Note the eldest two siblings are b in Highclere, in the Kingsclere Registration District. On the map, it looks about 3 or 4 miles south of Newbury. Annie E isn't there, but would have been abt 18, possibly in service somewhere nearby? Looks like you'll find the family in Slough in 1881.

regards birdlip

emmaoxley
16-10-2007, 2:44 AM
Thank you - you are amazing!!

How you got all this information so fast is beyond me.

I'm sure this must be the right one as two of the childrens names match what I have in notes from my mum. Plus Yorkshire is where my family are from.

This is amazing stuff - I can't thank you enough for your time :D

emmaoxley
16-10-2007, 2:48 AM
Also I did find on the 1901 census that an Annie Eliza Cole age 17 worked as a servant for a Richard Kendrew at 46 Cold Bath Road in Harrogate.

The pieces are starting to come together now ;)

birdlip
16-10-2007, 4:00 AM
You're very welcome.

...and well done, that does look like Annie. Did you notice it gives her place of birth as Newbury, Lincoln though? A bit odd. Its clearly written on the original, not an enumerators error this time.

regards birdlip

p.s. Perhaps her employer knew her father came from Lincolnshire; and when asked, Annie said she came from Newbury. Two and two make five if you're geographically challenged!

birdlip
16-10-2007, 5:07 AM
I found the family in 1891;

Rg12; 1135; 26; P48
5 Salisbury Rd, Upton Cum Chalvey, Buckinghamshire

Hannah* Cole wife m 36 Butlers wife b Hants Burghclere
Ruth H Cole dau 12 b Hants Highclere
William C Cole son 10 b do do
Annie E Cole dau 7 b do do
Benjamin H Cole 5 b do Burghclere
Selina H Cole 4 b Bucks Chalvey
Hannah H Cole b do do

* No wonder she was hard to find, though of course, Hannah was quite often shortened to Ann(e)

Chalvey is in the Eton Registration District, and I found this on freebmd births;

Selina Howard Cole March Qu 1887 Eton, Buckinghamshire.

This is good, because the Howard name is further proof it's the right family. I suspect all the other siblings that have an H as their middle initial will turn out to be Howards too.

continued..

birdlip
16-10-2007, 5:19 AM
Benjamin is working away in London in 1891;

RG12; 96; 92; P22
50 Montague Square, Marylebone in the household of Thomas H Thymne Viscount Weymouth, Magistrate and M.P., living on own means;

Benjamin Cole 36 mar Butler b Lincoln Louth

Next on the list of servants is a Frank Cole, 22 Footman, b London, Bloomsbury, but could be a relative? Might be good to put him up your sleeve for later (metaphorically speaking)

regards birdlip

birdlip
16-10-2007, 5:30 AM
Hi again, I'm on a roll...

Benjamin is with another family in the same district in 1881.

RG11; 140; 96; P48
15, Queen St, Marylebone, in the household of Edward Ponsonby, Magistrate Leut RN on retired list Barrister not in practice.

Benjamin Cole 31* mar Butler b Lincoln, England

He should be 26!! Perhaps he put his age up to apply for the position, to give him more authority?

birdlip
16-10-2007, 5:51 AM
Now this is really interesting. In the 1861 census, I've found Benjamin in Louth, aged 6, with his parents. Have a look at the surname of the 'visitor'..

RG9; 2380; 106; P24
63, Ramsgate, Louth, Lincolnshire

William Cole head mar 41 Coal Porter b York Kirby Moorside?
Ruth Cole wife mar 47 b Linc Grim?thorpe
Elias Cole son 9 b Linc Louth
Benjamin Cole son 6 b do do
Frances Howard visitor 77 Farmers widow b Linc Grim?thorpe

Note that Ruth the mother, and Frances Howard are born in the same place. I'm guessing Frances may be Ruth's mother. In which case, the Howard connection could be a generation further back than you thought?

At the top of the same page, in the household of Thomas Topham, baker, 3 River Hd Rd is Thomas Cole 13 Errand boy b Louth. Could be another of Benjamins siblings?

regards birdlip

Geoffers
16-10-2007, 7:01 AM
1891 census - RG12/1135 f26 p48
has Hannah COLE aged 36, wife of Butler with children, Ruth, William, Annie, Benjamin, Selina and Hannah living at 5, Salisbury Place, Chalvey, Bucks.

Taking the wife's name as Hannah, there is a marriage for Sept 1878 in Kensington where the groom is recorded as Benjamin COLE. There is a corresponding entry for the same quarter for Hannah GARRARD. I just wonder if some record you have has been mis-transcribed at sometime? Or possibly, the GRO clerk mis-read the surname in indexing the entry? Just a thought.

By the way, the 1891 census appears to show Benjamin COLE aged 36, a Butler, born Louth, Lncs. He can be found at RG12/96 f92 p22 in 50, Montagu Square, Marylebone where he was working for a magistrate.

Geoffers

birdlip
16-10-2007, 9:58 AM
Hi again,

that marriage Geoffers found looks interesting. I would say Garrard IS her name though, because on the census she gives her place of birth as Burghclere, Hants, and on freebmd births, there is this;

Hannah Garrard (and Mary Garrard ...twins?) Dec Qu 1854 Kingsclere 2c 170

and on the 1871 census;

RG 10; 3401; 32; P24
Still at 63 Ramsgate Rd Louth, Holy Trinity

William Cole head widr 57 Coal Porter b York
Mildred Wilson serv unm 62 b Linc Louth

I finally found Benjamin in 1871, mistranscribed as Benjamin Sole;

RG10; 851; 14; p21
3 Malcolia? (maybe Magnolia) Rd, Penge, Croydon, Surrey, in the household of Alexander T Rogers, schoolmaster.

Benjamin Sole (sic) servt unm 16 b Lincolnshire Louth

regards birdlip

emmaoxley
16-10-2007, 11:18 AM
WOW

I can't thank you both enough for doing this for me - it's amazing. It's given me so much to go on.

It's funny you should say about Anne Howard being called Hannah - my mum mentioned that she was sure it was a Hannah married to Benjamin Cole. Just goes to show sometimes family photos can be confusing and without any older surviving relatives there was just no-one to ask.

Interesting about the Howard/Garrard surname. Shame it doesn't include maiden names on the census records for households, may have made this a bit more easier :confused:

birdlip
16-10-2007, 11:58 AM
Hi again,

I'm so pleased its all coming together for you. Its great when it all ties in with family stories and memories too. Though it doesn't always of course, or sometimes people get the story half right.... and then there are always the suprises!

I've been doing some ferreting around looking for clues about this Howard name. IGI Batch numbers for Louth has four christenings with parents William and Ruth Cole ....and have a look at the second one;

Mary Ann Cole ch 12 DEC 1838, death 04 JAN 1846
John Howard Cole ch 16 JUN 1841
Thomas Cole ch 14 DEC 1843, death 20 JUN 1845
Thomas Cole ch 20 JUN 1847

Since Howard is being used as a middle name for a sibling of Benjamins, I think it really does suggest it's likely to be his mothers maiden name, and not his wifes. Incidentally, it looks like Thomas b 1847 is the 13 yr old errand boy seen on the 1861 census.

regards birdlip

birdlip
16-10-2007, 12:29 PM
Ruth Cole died at some stage between 1861 and 1871, when William describes himself as a widower. This looks like her death on freebmd;

Mar Qu 1868 Ruth Cole 54 Louth 7a 369

and the death of Frances Howard, the visitor aged 77 in 1861, (and possibly Ruth's mother);

Dec Qu 1876 Frances Porter Howard 92 Louth 7a 366

Incidentally, I think the place of birth I couldn't read on the 1861 census, is Grainthorpe, which is in the Louth Registration District.

OK, thats my lot, I'm off to bed. Let us know how you get on, and good luck!

regards birdlip

emmaoxley
16-10-2007, 3:05 PM
Hi

I found a few bits of information in the 1841 and 1861 census records for Ruth Howard but the dates don't match up to the one in my tree.

1841 Census
HOWARD Francis - Male - Age 55 - b Lincolnshire
HOWARD Ann - Female - Age 45 - b Lincolnshire (maybe this is the Ann Howard I was originally searching for)
HOWARD Mary - Female - Age 15 - b Lincolnshire
HOWARD Ruth - Female - Age 9 - b Lincolnshire

1861 Census
TAYLOR Thomas - Male - Head - Age 59 - Coal Merchant - b Casthorpe, Lincs
TAYLOR Lydia - Female - Wife - Age 48 - b West Keal, Lincs
HOWARD Ellen - Female - Daughter in Law - Age 29 - General Servant - b Mablethorpe
HOWARD Ruth - Female - Boarder - Age 28 - Dressmaker - b Trusthorpe

From the above info Ruths D.O.B. would be around 1832/1833 but my family tree states 1814 from the information in the 1861 Census for Benjamin Cole. Unless the Ruth I have found above is from the generation before making Francis and Ann, parents of Ruth? Not sure how that would work though as it would mean two daughters with the same name?

Geoffers
16-10-2007, 8:36 PM
1841 Census
HOWARD Francis - Male - Age 55 - b Lincolnshire
HOWARD Ann - Female - Age 45 - b Lincolnshire (maybe this is the Ann Howard I was originally searching for)
HOWARD Ruth - Female - Age 9 - b Lincolnshire
From the above info Ruths D.O.B. would be around 1832/1833 but my family tree states 1814 from the information in the 1861 Census for Benjamin Cole.

A couple of observations:
1) 1861 census shows William Cole's age as 47 rather than 41, his birthplace is Kirby Moorside and his wife's birthplace does read Grainthorpe.

2) The 1841 census does not require relationships to be recorded (very occasionally they are, but this is the exception rather than the rule). So, from the above you do not know that Ruth was the daughter of Francis and Ann, merely that someone of that name was recorded as staying at that residence on the night of the census.

3) Everything you have so far in this thread is useful information that gives you some lines of enquiry to try and establish if the ideas and assumptions are correct - or wrong. You do need to proceed carefully to avoid following the wrong line. I appreciate that when you get a laod of new information, this gives impetus so that you want to keep the momentum going; but do establish those links before going further.

IF William COLE married Ruth HOWARD and she was 47 at the time of the 1861 census, then at the time of the 1841 census she may well have been:

living away from home as a servant somewhere
been in prison and only recorded with initials
been in a workhouse and only recorded with initials
been married with a family of her own
etc

I think you need to go back to Birdlip's find of Annie Cole's birth, which appears to be registered in 1883 at Kingslcere

Geoffers

emmaoxley
16-10-2007, 9:04 PM
Thanks for the response Geoffers.
I'm quite new to all this searching lark and just wanted to find more family members. Things were going so well I think I got a little carried away. I have looked at all the information from this thread and from my own findings, everything seems to be correct up to William Cole and Ruth Howard.

birdlip
17-10-2007, 12:35 AM
Hello again,

I have to say I completely agree with everything Geoffers has said. We need calm, wise words like his on this forum...its very easy to get carried away! I understand completely, I get carried away too, when its not even my family!! Well, overly enthusiastic lets say. I feel a bit responsible, I think maybe I've overdone it and given you too MUCH information!

I'll say one more thing though, the Ruth Howard you found in 1841 and 1861 is unlikely to be 'yours', though she could turn out to be a relative of some sort. If the children found on Batch numbers are correct, (and, yes they will need to be checked against the PR's) Wm and Ruths first child was christened at Louth in Dec 1838, which means she was probably married well before the 1841 census. So if you are looking for her in 1841, look for Ruth Cole.

regards birdlip

emmaoxley
17-10-2007, 8:37 PM
Thank you for all the advice - I will control my impatience in future, I promise :D

This just goes to show my inexperience which hopefully will get better as time goes on. I can also use this as experience for a course I am due to start on 'Writing Family History' at the end of the month.

Thanks again ;)

birdlip
18-10-2007, 12:54 AM
I'd LOVE to do a course like that. Lucky you!

regards birdlip