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Sally Anne
26-09-2007, 4:55 PM
Hi there

Can anybody tell me where and if I can access information for my grandfathers first wife Joyce Muriel Masters (previously Tissier) who passed away on 20/9/42 at Twyford Lodge Willesden whilst pregnant.

I have a copy of the Death Certificate which shows death from Eclampsia, but I am trying to ascertain whether the child she was carrying survived, I can find no record of a baby dying in the same place on that date, but neither can I find a birth registration. Does a stillbirth have to be registered ?,or if a child is adopted would the birth still show up but under different names and is there a way I can trace this? Any advice would be gratefully received.

Sally

Sue Mackay
26-09-2007, 5:28 PM
Just a thought. Could the birth name possibly be Le Tissier? This is a very common name in the Channel Islands, and may explain why you are having difficulty finding her in UK birth records.

Sally Anne
27-09-2007, 9:12 AM
Hi Sue

Thanks for your reply, I thought the same as you but no it's just Tissier and I have traced her family back to the 1800's, but I really am just trying to find out what happened to the baby she was expecting. I have found a baby that died but that was listed in Surrey, so this cant be right. If this baby did survive, we would like to trace him/her as this would be my mothers brother/sister.

There was a post mortem carried out do you know if I can get a copy or if this would shed some light? Also if a baby is adopted, when the birth is registered will it only show adoptive parents?, or do you get something alternative to a birth certificate? Finally do stillbirths get registered, I havent been down that route yet?.

Sorry for all the new questions but I really am stuck, and desperate to move forward.

Kind Regards
Sally

Peter Goodey
27-09-2007, 9:56 AM
You've seen the earlier thread about Twyford Lodge, haven't you?

Stillbirths were registered from 1927. The indexes are not available to the public.

This leaflet...
http://213.86.34.248/NR/rdonlyres/0D15B0CF-8A94-44D5-9966-5F3276C5C74F/0/Infono34.pdf
explains Coroners' Records and their survival.

Generally speaking, it's reckoned that the likeliest place to find a report of an inquest is the local press.

If you want to explore the survival of any clinical records I guess you would you have to approach the appropriate NHS authority (listed on the Hospital Records Database). I don't think the chances of finding anything from 1942 are very high.

I'm sorry to be a wet blanket :o but I think the hospital would have sorted out the paperwork and if there isn't a birth/death record I think you should assume stillbirth (eclampsia is usually associated with the later stages of pregnancy so I'm assuming that we're talking about later than 24 weeks after conception which is the definition of stillbirth).

chris wykes
13-12-2008, 4:11 AM
hi, i just received my mothers birth certificate its says she was born in twyford lodge 28/08 /1936 i was wondering if there will be any records of her birth and if they would have the name of the father has it only has my grandmothers name on the birth certificate . was it a hospital or a workhouse ? has they lived in acton .


thank-you mr c wykes

Peter Goodey
13-12-2008, 8:30 AM
Use the Hospital Records Database (search term - "Willesden" is sufficient).

Admission and discharge records up to 1935 only have been lodged at the London Metropolitan Archives. Perhaps the NHS can help. However, you will most probably not discover the father's name through this route.

An affiliation order is a possibility - that means searching the records of magistrates courts. You'll need to know the right district. These are blighters to search - you may want to build up more experience pursuing other lines before tackling that job.

chris wykes
14-12-2008, 12:15 AM
hi, thank-you peter for your reply, was wondering would there be an electorial register for for willesden and also one for acton has my grandmother and my mother lived in acton.



thank-you chris

Peter Goodey
14-12-2008, 8:03 AM
Yes. The LMA has a pretty good collection of electoral registers. What were you hoping to find out?

chris wykes
14-12-2008, 5:35 PM
hi peter , i know that they lived at 33 birkbeck ave acton when my mother was born but was just a little confused why my mother was born at twyford lodge?


thanks chris

Jan1954
14-12-2008, 5:50 PM
Hello Chris,


Twyford Lodge was the maternity ward of Willesden Workhouse Infirmary.


Remember, the National Health Service was not around in 1936, only coming into being in 1948. If your grandmother needed hospitalisation in order to give birth, rather than a home birth, then this would probably have been the closest place.

I hope that this helps,

Penny Gallo
14-12-2008, 7:06 PM
If you look at Peter Higginbotham's site (workhouses.org.uk) it might give some clues (type "Willesden" into the search, or go via the English county/poor law union). He shows photos of the buildings including the hospital, and also lists holders of records. I don't know if thi would include women who were merely maternity patients, but it might be worth investigating. xxxx Penny

Peter Goodey
14-12-2008, 7:25 PM
Plenty of people are born in hospitals rather than at home. Did you see the Hospital Records database? It list the various names the place has had -

Willesden Workhouse Infirmary (1900 - 1914)
Willesden Institution (1914 - 1921)
Park Royal Hospital (1921 - 1931)
Central Middlesex County Hospital (1931 - 1948)
and finally the Central Middlesex Hospital

So when your mother was born, it was the Central Middlesex County Hospital.

"Twyford Lodge" was just the euphemism; it was never the official name of the place.

chris wykes
14-12-2008, 8:05 PM
hi jan, thank-you very much for your help .



regards chris

chris wykes
14-12-2008, 8:14 PM
hi peter , thanks for your help my mother was born 28/08/1936.


thanks chris

chris wykes
16-12-2008, 1:23 PM
As I have mentioned previously, my Grandmother gave birth to my mother in Twyford Lodge (wrote on her Birth Certificate). I am trying to access records relating to the paperwork she would of had to fill in to be addmited i e I understand this would have had details of Fathers name, a section to say if they were married, divorced, widowed, etc, next of kin etc. The reason I want to know is, the Fathers name is absent from my Mother's Birth Certificate and I dont have any more information about him. On my Mother's birth certificate it has, her mother as Amy Wilson (formerly Thompson). I cannot find any Marriage certificate for my grandmother, so I was hoping I could get more details from the Admission Record to possibly assist me in trying to find other details about my grandfather.

regards chris .

Peter Goodey
16-12-2008, 4:12 PM
As mentioned before (message number 6 of this thread), admission and discharge records covering 1907-1935 are held at the London Metropolitan Archives. The Hospital Records Database is silent on the location of later records which you would need because your mother was born in 1936. All I can suggest is that you ask the hospital.

I still stand by my advice in message number 6 (http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showpost.php?p=228140&postcount=6).

JanetMay
09-09-2009, 3:13 PM
[QUOTE=Peter Goodey;228140] Use the Hospital Records Database (search term - "Willesden" is sufficient).

I've just found this forum searching for background on births pre NHS and to my surprise found a reference to Twyford Lodge. Perhaps I can help.

Twyford Lodge was indeed a hospital and not a Workhouse in 1942, I was born there, and Twyford Lodge, Willesden is on my birth certificate. The Registration District was then "Willesden in the sub district of "Harlesden" in the County of Middlesex.

At the time my Mother lived in East Acton and the doodle bugs were over London.

Many hospitals were converted from what were former Work Houses because they couldnt build quick enough; they were too busy making cemeteries. Its a sensitive issue suggesting someone was born in a Workhouse. The facts are there for all to see when purchasing a copy of a register.

Twyford Lodge became Park Royal Hospital, in the district of London NW10 and more recently Greater London.

As we can now find births up to 1951 in FreeBMD I think its worth purchasing the birth certificate and I hope the information I have given is useful even though its late.

Peter Goodey
09-09-2009, 5:06 PM
Twyford Lodge was never the official name of the institution - it was the address used by registrars on birth and death certificates

Ther term "workhouse" was not used after 1913-14. The hospital was opened in 1908 when it was known as the Workhouse Infirmary, later the Willesden Institution and then the Park Royal Hospital. In 1930, control of the Poor Law institutions together with their various responsibilities passed to local authorities. In many cases this meant another change of name. In the case of Willesden, it now became known as Central Middlesex County Hospital.

Note that after 1885, it was not necessary to be a pauper to use the workhouse infirmary.

The National Health Service was established in 1948 and it was only then that the remains of the poor law were swept away and health care was available to all who needed it.

JanetMay
09-09-2009, 8:38 PM
My earlier post referred to my own birth in 1942 and I know I wasnt born in a Workhouse.

Janet

pennydog
10-09-2009, 10:52 AM
hi, thank-you peter for your reply, was wondering would there be an electorial register for for willesden and also one for acton has my grandmother and my mother lived in acton.



thank-you chris

Hi Chris - the electoral registers are also held at the Brent Archive (95 High Rd, Willesden Green, NW10 2SF) - the people there are very kind and helpful (I was there only last week!), why dont you give them a call - the number is on the website, just google it - and see what info they can help you with.