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IreneR
15-09-2007, 9:30 AM
I have been handed from another family member hand written notes from a researcher on extracts of Source County Records Office ref ddx 711/1-16

This means nothing to me but the information was invaluable and I have a heap of questions and want to know about how to obtain such information for another leasehold and how I can relate the notes I have to later census information etc.
Also what exactly is a leasehold ?


Irene

Aussie so no I cant pop down to local office and look up stuff <grin>

Dipsey
15-09-2007, 9:57 AM
I have been handed from another family member hand written notes from a researcher on extracts of Source County Records Office ref ddx 711/1-16

This means nothing to me but the information was invaluable and I have a heap of questions and want to know about how to obtain such information for another leasehold and how I can relate the notes I have to later census information etc.
Also what exactly is a leasehold ?


Irene

Aussie so no I cant pop down to local office and look up stuff <grin>

Leasehold is when one leases a house or land or both for a set time :ie99years, You never own the property. You can find this information at The County record Office, Old County Hall, Truro
http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/

IreneR
15-09-2007, 2:49 PM
Dipsey Thanks

Checked out the link but at $50 aust to search think I will need to wait a bit to make sure I know what Im asking for .

There are a few terms I am having trouble with and wonder if you or anyone else could help.
Also is there any way to relate the original descrription of the leasehold to modern maps so that I can accurately place it etc.

The description in 1702 is as follows
Messuarge, orchard and gardens, with 4 fields called Lower parcanchapel, Higher Gwabmarks, Lower Gwabmarks and meadow (total 10 acres) with carriageway through hedge of park an chapel all part of Coppers tenements, St Ruan parish of Grade.
Late occupant Naboth Randall (mine) miller , and hos Thomas.

Also later on in the notes
4th June 1871 John Randle..... property as/13 (think this refers to earlier note) and dwelling house part of St.Ruan Farm, Grade tithe No 2220556
Would this refer to the same lease as the description of the Leddra Mill above or is it something else (the word farm worries me as all the other notes refer to mill or coppers tenement.)

The word 'Mocity' (apologies handwriting is very hard to read on notes and this is the closest I can make it out to be) is repeated on a lot of the notes
eg Mocite of Leddra Mill
owner of other moicity.

Last question for now
"Transfer of mortgage by lease and release with counterpart" (1776)
is this different to just the normal lease or does it refer to the actual holders of the land as apposed to the leaseholders.

Can you or anyone help with the "legalspeak" of the times please.


Irene

kenripper
17-09-2007, 7:25 AM
Hi IreneR

Like yourself I find it difficult to get to the CRO when I want to but here's a few thoughts for you to consider.

Many parishes compiled tithe maps in the 1700s which show field boundaries and settlements, amongst other things. There was also a key to these maps which showed who owned or leased which parcel of land and the value of the land such that tithes (taxes) could be charged. If this exists for the area in which you are interested it is almost certainly at the CRO.

The CRO catalogue for Grade < http://crocat.cornwall.gov.uk/dserve/dserve.exe?dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqCmd=Overview.tcl&dsqSearch=((text)='grade') > may contain a will or estate/tenement plan which mentions and locates Gwabmarks.

In medieval Cornwall almost all the land was held by the monarch or a member of the aristocracy. The aristocracy estates were divided into manors which were divided into tenements. Manors were not necessarily a single contiguous tract of land but could be an assemblage of land in various parishes. Usually a tenement was part of a single parish. Tenants rented or leased tenements from the Lord of the Manor (the aristocrat who owned the whole estate). Maintaining these estates often involved manorial functions such as the production of estate maps, as well as the use of manor courts to administer law (including land law) in the manors. Whilst court proceedings are much earlier than your enquiry they may help to identify parcels of land.

Few Cornishmen of the day had a single occupation and to see a miller who is also farming or mining or fishing is not uncommon. It was a case of scratching income and sustenance from whichever source was appropriate at any one time. Even to day there are carpenters who have a sideline as undertakers - I saw a sign advertising this in Ponsanooth just a couple of years ago.

A moeity is a small portion of something, often in this circumstance it will refer to part of a tenement < http://www.fromoldbooks.org/Grose-VulgarTongue/m/moiety.html >.

From my days working with mortgages there are two basic transfer types - a transfer of equity and a, rarely used these days, transfer of equity. A transfer of equity is where the property is unchanged but the ownership of the property and accompanying debt is transferred from one person to another. A transfer of mortgage is where the borrowers are unchanged but the debt moves with them from one property to another property. This would inevitably involve the borrower having the responsibility for the debt over one parcel of land being rescinded (released) and moved to another and a lease of land was often the legal vehicle used to achieve this. You can see how somebody moving from one tenement in a manor to another tenement, where land values and rents would be different, would need to have a document which detailed these things. There would be more than one version of this document, so that all parties could be in no doubt as to what was agreed, and so a counterpart of the main document was created for the borrower/tenant.

I don't know if any of this helps much but if and when you come to engage somebody to undertake some research for you these may help crystallise your thoughts.

Happy hunting

kenripper

hughar
17-09-2007, 8:42 AM
Irene,
You may find the following link helpful http://www.a2a.org.uk/html/021-x711.htm
It takes you to the entry in the Access to Archives index for this series of lease documents for Copper's Tenement, Grade that are held at Cornwall Record Office under reference X 711/1-16
It seems to me that what you have is a handwritten copy of this summary, in which case this version should be clearer and more accurate.

IreneR
18-09-2007, 3:20 AM
Ken and Hughar

Thanks heaps I now have slightly better idea of where to go and what exactly is what.

Im off to spend the next month chasing land documents :)

Irene

PS Hugar I spent 5 days deciphering hand written notes and that site is identical LOL I should have asked for help sooner

NOTE to all newbie Researchers Ask for help first it will save you weeks :)

Guy Etchells
18-09-2007, 5:59 AM
Leasehold A system of conditional ownership of a property for a set period of time, after which the ownership of the property reverts to the landlord.

Messauge - House outbuildings and adjoining land assigned for its use.
Tenements The holdings owned in this case by a family named Copper(s) [An alternative word for messuage]
Moiety One of two equal parts

You may also find
Apurtances things that belong to the house (sheds, yards, access paths)


Lease and release Two separate documents used in property sales up to 1845.

First the leasehold of the property was transferred to the purchaser by means of bargain and sale. This was not a real lease but simply a legal device using nominal sums of money and terms of lease. ( i.e. sold for 6 months for a consideration of 5/- and a rent of one peppercorn)

Shortly afterwards the real sale (the Release) would take place where the freehold of the property would take place for the true value.

It was a way to sell a property without the conveyance being enrolled and made public.
Cheers
Guy