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timelord
21-11-2004, 8:03 PM
i am trying to trace my grandfather: joseph downing born princes end:tipton. c1893. can any one help

Jo Simpsons
21-11-2004, 8:22 PM
There are a few showing up of near ages from 1901 census. Do you know the parents names?
Jo :)

Geoffers
21-11-2004, 8:36 PM
i am trying to trace my grandfather: joseph downing born princes end:tipton. c1893. can any one help
You have hopefully got your grandfather's marriage certificate, which should record the name and occupation of his father. Using both names and Joseph's age at marriage try to locate them on the 1901 census, (searching the index is free, you pay to view the full census image).

With confirmation of age and place of birth from the census you can search the General Register Office (GRO) index of births, to locate a reference with which you can order a copy of his birth certificate.

The GRO index has been partially transcribed for the freebmd website
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
you may find the reference there.

The GRO index is complete on 1837 online but this is a pay-per-view website

With a reference you can order certificates online at
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

Joseph's father should also show up on the 1881 census - a transcript is available on CD-rom or online at www.familysearch.org (http://www.familysearch.org)

Geoffers
Charlbury, Oxfordshire

timelord
21-11-2004, 8:46 PM
thanks, but i am sorry that all the information i have on my grandfather is his place of birth,and an approximate date. which is why i am having such dufficulty trying to find him, i have found a couple of josephs on the 1901 census,but they do not appear to have been born in tipton

Geoffers
22-11-2004, 10:56 PM
thanks, but i am sorry that all the information i have on my grandfather is his place of birth,and an approximate date. which is why i am having such dufficulty trying to find him, i have found a couple of josephs on the 1901 census,but they do not appear to have been born in tipton
It all depends on your source of information that he was born in Tipton. If this is word-of-mouth or on a recent death certificate, don't take the birthplace as being accurate. Your grandfather may have grown up in Tipton, believing he was born there; your family may have beent old he was born there - but in actual fact he may have been born elsewhere.

Work at it methodically and you should be able to find what you want, but it does mean obtaining relevant certificates to provide you with information on which to base further research. I would recommend obtaining your grandfather's marriage certificate as a first step. Please ask, if you are not sure how to use the GRO indexes and the information they contain.

Geoffers
Charlbury, Oxfordshire

timelord
23-11-2004, 10:17 AM
thanks geoffers, yes word of mouth, my father told me that granddad was born in princes end tipton, as to how accurate this is i have no idea, i do believe he was married twice though, i am writing to the express and star,see if they have a copy of the obituary when he died, see if i can find out an age from that. i was told that he was 65 when he died in 1958, however i was told that my grandmother, was 70 when she died, she was in fact 83!

Geoffers
23-11-2004, 1:29 PM
yes word of mouth, my father told me that granddad was born in princes end tipton, as to how accurate this is i have no idea, i do believe he was married twice though, i am writing to the express and star,see if they have a copy of the obituary when he died, see if i can find out an age from that. i was told that he was 65 when he died in 1958
The GRO index of deaths records the following Joseph Downings as having died in 1958

Qtr Year, SURNAME, Forename, age, District, Vol Page
Mar 1958, DOWNING, Joseph, 64, Wolverhampton, 9b 1081
Mar 1958, DOWNING, Joseph, 75, Birmingham, 9c 774
Jun 1958, DOWNING, Jsoeph, Chesterfield, 3a 84
Jun 1958, DOWNING Joseph T, Bromsgrove, 9d 27
Mar 1959 DOWNING Joseph, Rowley R, 9b 494

If your age is correct, then the 1901 census shows 4 Josephs aged & (+/- 2 years)

DOWNING, Joseph, 6, bn Birmingham, living Aston
DOWNING, Joseph, 7, bn Cradley Worcs, living Cradley
DOWNING, Joseph, 9, bn Audley, living Audley
DOWNING, Joseph, 9, bn Wednesfield, living Wednesfield

As and when you get George's marriage certificate, you will have a father's name and occupation to search for on the 1901 census, to try and match the place he was living against the above names

Geoffers
Charlbury, Oxfordshire

timelord
23-11-2004, 2:28 PM
many thanks geoffers, as i live in shetland, i am going to get my sister in law in wolverhampton to look up the names you have given me, will let you know how i get on. i do know he served in the south staffs during the 14-18 war,and that he was wounded and invalided out, i have only found one joseoh downing who served in the s.staffs at that time, and have now downloaded his medal card. so i do have something.

Jo Simpsons
23-11-2004, 3:22 PM
This may be a bit old for your Joseph but there is, in Tipton

James Downing 37, canal boat, Tipton.
Phoebe, 35 Quarry Bank
Harriet, 14, Tipton
Joseph, 12, ,,
Solomon, 10, ,,
Sarah, 8, ,,
James, 6, ,,
Betsy, 2, ,,
John Albert, 1 month,
Harriet, Mother, widow.

There is an older one, he is 14 in Tipton.
All just guess work with out the fathers name though.
Jo

Geoffers
23-11-2004, 4:46 PM
[as i live in shetland,]

You jammy so-and-so, what a great place to live

[i do know he served in the south staffs during the 14-18 war,and that he was wounded and invalided out, i have only found one joseph downing who served in the s.staffs at that time, and have now downloaded his medal card.]

The medal card should have the date of entry into the theatre of war - this may give a minor insight into whether or not you are on the right lines for his age. If he went to war in 1914, then he could have been any age - if he went to France towards the end of the war, he is more likely to have just come of age and so be younger.

Geoffers
Charlbury, Oxfordshire

Jo Simpsons
23-11-2004, 5:55 PM
Second you there Geoffers! As long as there is a raging fire to keep warm!

Jo :)

timelord
23-11-2004, 6:56 PM
medal card has the following info: disembarkation date 4/10/1914
discharge date 7/4/1917 pte joseph downing 9035 1st battalion south staffs regiment. i take it the disembarkation date is when he left the uk for france, card also shows he was with the b.e.f.

Geoffers
23-11-2004, 8:45 PM
medal card has the following info: disembarkation date 4/10/1914......i take it the disembarkation date is when he left the uk for france,
The disembarkation date would be the date he landed in France - the medals were issued for being in the theatre of war for a certain period of time.
Geoffers

timelord
25-11-2004, 10:16 AM
thanks everyone, i am going to get my sister in law to go to the wolverhampton records office,and see if she can get me grandads death cert, then i can trace back from there. and try and get marraige cert, although i have been told he was married twice. also going to try the express and star see if they have a copy of the obituary see what realtives there are.

timelord
15-04-2005, 12:20 PM
sister in law did not manage to find anything, i am coming down to wolverhampton in sept to try myself, if i remember rightly both my grand parents are burried in st phillips at penn, wolverhampton. so will start there.

timelord
24-01-2006, 12:02 PM
from my research i have found a joseph downing on the 1901 census, born in ledgley?? could this have been sedgley? is it possible to mix up an s and an l his father too is joseph also born in ledgley. joseph has a sister jane, and i do remember visiting my fathers auntie jane in cannock.

Wirral
24-01-2006, 2:48 PM
Not only does it look like Sedgley, but Joseph snr would tie in with a Joseph who in earlier censuses gave his place of birth as Tipton, Staffs. Sedgley, Tipton & Prince's End are only a few miles from each other.

timelord
25-01-2006, 11:54 AM
thankls wirral, looks like i may be on the right track then.

Wirral
25-01-2006, 1:31 PM
Do you need the earlier censuses for Joseph snr, or do you already have them?

timelord
25-01-2006, 2:06 PM
no. i only have the 1901 census

Wirral
25-01-2006, 8:18 PM
1891 census RG12/2283 folio 32 page 11, 103 Bloomfield Road, Tipton, Staffordshire

Robert Thompson head M 66 Coal miner, Staffs Brockmoor[?]
Jane Thompson wife M 59, Durham Sunderland
Frank Downing stepson S 24 Coal miner, Staffs Tipton
Jospeh Downing stepson S 18 Coal miner, Staffs Tipton
Thomas Downing stepson S 13 scholar, Staffs Tipton

1881 census RG11/2865 folio 144 page 32, 18 Wednesbury Oak Road, Tipton, Staffs
William Downey head M 53 Coal miner, Staffs Rugeley
Jane A. " wife M 50 [can't read place]
Francis " son 14 Coal miner, Staffs Tipton
Elizabeth " dau 12 scholar Staffs Tipton
Joseph " son 7 scholar Staffs Tipton
Emma " dau 6 scholar Staffs Tipton
Thomas " son 3 Staffs Tipton
Thomas Griffiths lodger M 24 Blacksmith (striker), Staffs Bilston
Margaret Griffiths wife M 20 Staffs Bilston

Wirral
25-01-2006, 10:40 PM
Haven't found them yet in 1871 or 1851.

1861 census RG9/2007folio 48 page 36, 5 Oatmeal Sq, Bilston. Staffs
Francis Heywood head M 32 Coal miner, Staffs Bilston
Jane " wife M 31 Staffs Wolverhampton
John " son 6 scholar, Staffs Bilston
Mary " dau 10 Japaneress, Staffs Bilston
William Downing lodger M 32 Coal miner, Staffs Rudgley
Jane Downing wife M 26, Durham Sunderland
Margrat J Downing dau 9mth, Staffs Bilston

[Japan was an imitation lacquer, so I guess Mary was employed in the manufacture of lacquerware].

1841 census [All born in the county, ages 15+ rounded down to the nearest 5 years]
HO107/973 folio 39 page 40 Redbrook Lane, Rugeley, Staffs
William Downing 12 M.S. [male servant]
HO107/973/19 folio 42 page 9, Brewery [by Brereton Village], Rugeley, Staffs
Elizabeth Downing 40 Charwoman
Elizabeth " 10
Emma " 9

Some of the family are listed on the IGI.

timelord
26-01-2006, 1:04 PM
thanks wirral. i have found a jane downng, married to william on the 1881 census, her place of birth is yarmouth, but in 1891 her palce of birth in durham??? and she has remarried??? why such a difference in place of birth. all other details fit in though. thanks for all your help. dont know where i would be without it.