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AnnP
15-08-2007, 7:34 PM
I am trying to confirm that Thomas Barton who died in WW! on the 26.9.1916 age 39 - Private 13987 - 11th Bn - Manchester Regiment, buried Thiepval Memorial, Somme, France is actually my Grandfather. There is no additional information on the Debt of Honour Register confirming his next of kin.

I spoke to Tony Sprason at The Fusiliers Museum, Lancashire some years ago, asking his advice, he went on to tell me that it would have cost his next of kin something like 2 shillings to register the additional information. I would imagine that being widowed with about 8 children, she couldn't affort it. Do you think the local newspapers would have mentioned his death and his next of kin in the Obituary Columns?

Many thanks
Ann

Wirral
15-08-2007, 8:30 PM
Have you looked on the local war memorial to see if he is named there? Did you get the age at death from the death certificate?

AnnP
16-08-2007, 8:40 AM
The only information passed down was that he died at the Battle of the Somme. I looked at the Debt of Honour Register and made the assumption that he was my Grandfather. I have been trying to confirm this. I don't have a death certificate for him (is it possible to get one) I went off the censuses for his age.

I was told recently that there is a Memorial at a train station in Manchester. I used to live in the Manchester area but this is the first I have heard of this. Does anybody know of one?

regards
Ann

Wirral
16-08-2007, 12:46 PM
Army, Navy & Airforce deaths are indexed separately in the GRO indexes. Although you know he died at the Somme, do you know the date or year that he died? Also, where were the family living when he joined up? In the 1st WW, local lads used to join the same regiment (Pals Brigades). Also, he was older than usual. Was he a soldier before the war or was he called up when it started? What was his occupation?

BeeE586
16-08-2007, 12:46 PM
Research such as this was new to me until last week when I helped a friend look for a First World War casualty.

On the War Graves Commission site you will find photographs of the memorials (if you haven't already been there), but there are no more details other than those you have.

A rather silly thought - was his home actually in Manchester ? The fact that he was in the Manchester Regiment may not mean that he lived there. In the last war, even though my husband lived in Derbyshire he was in the Hampshire Regiment.

Eileen

uksearch
16-08-2007, 1:00 PM
If he was a Manchester man, his name would have appeared in the local papers, though not, I should think, in the BMDs column.

UK

AnnP
16-08-2007, 2:01 PM
Army, Navy & Airforce deaths are indexed separately in the GRO indexes. Although you know he died at the Somme, do you know the date or year that he died? Also, where were the family living when he joined up? In the 1st WW, local lads used to join the same regiment (Pals Brigades). Also, he was older than usual. Was he a soldier before the war or was he called up when it started? What was his occupation?
He died in Battle on 26.9.1916. In 1901 census the family were living at 27 Susan Street, Collyhurst St Oswald, Manchester. I assume he was called up. His occupation was ...??? Labourer. I have traced the family back to 1861 and they have always lived in Manchester.

Ann

AnnP
16-08-2007, 2:11 PM
Research such as this was new to me until last week when I helped a friend look for a First World War casualty.

On the War Graves Commission site you will find photographs of the memorials (if you haven't already been there), but there are no more details other than those you have.

A rather silly thought - was his home actually in Manchester ? The fact that he was in the Manchester Regiment may not mean that he lived there. In the last war, even though my husband lived in Derbyshire he was in the Hampshire Regiment.

Eileen
Eileen - Yes, he was from Manchester and his family before him. I found the photograph on the War Graves Commision site along with some historical information.

Ann

AnnP
16-08-2007, 2:17 PM
If he was a Manchester man, his name would have appeared in the local papers, though not, I should think, in the BMDs column.

UK
Are the local papers available to view on line?

Ann

Forrest Anderson
16-08-2007, 11:37 PM
The only information passed down was that he died at the Battle of the Somme.
The 11th Bn of the Manchester Regiment was certainly fighting at the Battle of the Somme on the date 13987 Pte Barton died. Ray Westlake gives the following entry for the battalion in his book "British Battalions on the Somme":



Moved from reserve line Crucifix Corner to Ovillers (26 Sep) - bombing parties and 1 platoon sent forward to Mouquet Farm. Battalion moved forward 3.28pm - in action towards farm and surrounding positions - Zollern Redoubt, Stuff Redoubt, Hessian Trench until relieved to Kay Dump (29 Sep)



I looked at the Debt of Honour Register and made the assumption that he was my Grandfather. I have been trying to confirm thisSoldiers Died in the Great War, published in many parts by the Government after WW1, states that 13987 Pte Thomas Barton of the 11th Bn, Manchester Regiment, was born in New Cross, Manchester, and resided in Manchester. Does his place of birth tie in with that of your grandfather?



I was told recently that there is a Memorial at a train station in Manchester. I used to live in the Manchester area but this is the first I have heard of this. Does anybody know of one?
The National Inventory of War Memorials at http://www.ukniwm.org.uk/server/show/nav.002006 has many hits for Manchester. There is at least one at a station - at Manchester Piccadilly Station - but it's for WW2. If you check the database, you may find others.

Forrest

BeeE586
17-08-2007, 12:21 AM
Might this site be of interest ?

http://www.tameside.gov.uk/leisure/new/lh35.htm

Eileen

AnnP
17-08-2007, 2:24 PM
Hello Forrest

Many thanks for all the information. The Thomas Barton, born New Cross, Manchester does tie-in with my Grandfather. If I could get a copy of his death certificate would it give me the information I need to confirm that he is the person I am looking for. What is actually on a death certificate for somebody killed in action?

regards
Ann

AnnP
17-08-2007, 2:27 PM
Might this site be of interest ?

http://www.tameside.gov.uk/leisure/new/lh35.htm

Eileen
Thank you for the above link - The Manchester Regiment Archives CD ROM looks well worth looking at.

regards
Ann

uksearch
17-08-2007, 3:39 PM
Are the local papers available to view on line?

AnnNot for the time period you require.

UK