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pejay
04-10-2006, 2:24 PM
|banghead| I wonder if someone can help please.I am trying to get enough details to get some research done at TNA, the problem is I am not sure how to find a service no. I have full name, regt served in.but I do not have dates or the service no. It seems I need this number for the research, but when I go online at TNA absolutely nothing in the records comes up, it is like this person never existed as a soldier. Any help /suggestions more than welcome.

Jillychris
04-10-2006, 3:38 PM
I don't know what years we are talking about here, but did he marry or have Children when he was in the Service. If so his number may be on the marriage certificate or birth certificate of his Children if this was after 1837.

I hope this helps.

Regards
Jill

Geoffers
04-10-2006, 3:48 PM
I am trying to get enough details to get some research done at TNA, the problem is I am not sure how to find a service no. I have full name, regt served in.but I do not have dates or the service no. It seems I need this number for the research.
It depends when he served in the army as to whether or not you'll find owt on TNA's site. You dno't specifically need his regimental number to locate a service record. Depending on when he served, you may need a regiment; but without further details I cannot be more specific.
Try reading TNA's research guides on the subject, all rpefixed 'British Army'.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/researchguidesindex.asp?j=1#b

Geoffers

pejay
04-10-2006, 3:55 PM
Hi and thanks for your reply.I really am banging my head against a wall at the moment.I have a birth cert for one of his children, and alas it just states private 10th regt of foot. It seems I need the number to get someone to do the research for me, I thought i knew the regiment but I have found out the 10th foot had 2? battalions and I am not sure if I would need to know which one he was in. please forgive my total ignorance of the army. |wave|

neil1821
04-10-2006, 4:00 PM
Pejay,
Can you give us his full name?
Also any approximate dates. Even his date of birth would help, we can infer roughly when he may have served.

Neil

pejay
04-10-2006, 4:08 PM
Hi and many thanks for your reply too Geoffers. I am really struggling with this ancestor, he would be a g grandfather, he served in th 10th reg of foot - later the Lincolnshire Regt I am not sure when he joined up, he was Irish and i did find out the 10th regt was in Ireland in 1861 - 63 I don't know if he joined up then I think he was discharged sometime between 1881 - 1891 I have gone through the WO numbers online with a fine tooth comb and am not picking anything up. I did email the museum of the Lincolnshire regt in desperation but got no reply. any help gratefully received.
|banghead|

neil1821
04-10-2006, 4:11 PM
Ok, so that's a regiment and an approximate date range!
I can try a few lookups in medal rolls and suchlike for you with a name as well.

Neil

pejay
04-10-2006, 4:24 PM
Hi Neil, many thanks for your interest. His name was Owen Kelly, born in Waterford, Ireland 1842/43, I think. He was a Private in the 10th regiment of foot.

Many thanks.

Peter Goodey
04-10-2006, 4:40 PM
I think he was discharged sometime between 1881 - 1891
If you're lucky you'll find the discharge papers at the National Archives in this block:-


Soldiers discharged 1882-1900

For this period all discharge papers were filed alphabetically, for the whole army (WO 97/2172 to WO 97/4231 ). Some discharge papers may have been misfiled, and are now in a second alphabetic sequence in WO 97/6355 to WO 97/6383 . These documents are seen in the original, and are ordered on computer.

Geoffers
04-10-2006, 5:02 PM
I have gone through the WO numbers online with a fine tooth comb and am not picking anything up. I did email the museum of the Lincolnshire regt in desperation but got no reply. any help gratefully received.

Using TNA's catalogue, I searched on Kelly in the word or prhase field and in the department or series code entererd WO97.

It came back with WO97/3206 covering the names KELLY.L to KELLY.P

If he was pensioned for long service, you'll find these in WO117, but they are not indexed on the catalogue.

A trip to TNA could be in order.

Geoffers

neil1821
04-10-2006, 6:21 PM
Pejay,
I have a lead for you. From what you said earlier, it seemed a possibility that he would have served long enough (18 years) to qualify for a Long Service and Good Conduct Medal.

Checking the rolls, I came across this entry:
208 Private Owen Kelly, 10th Regt (no battalion mentioned unfortunately)
Date of recommendation for his medal was 1st Oct 1876
Given that he had to have served 18 years for the medal, his enlistment date would be circa Sept 1858

Can't absolutely prove he's your man from the roll, but it seems likely. 208 would be his service number.

Neil

pejay
05-10-2006, 11:14 AM
Many thanks for all the interest and help, I did try WO117 for long service but unfortunately nothing came up, and on the WO97/3206 it just came up as an invalid code. Am I doing something wrong? I realise everything is not online, but would the name still show? I'm afraid I don't know much about the Archives.
It is great to have a service number, I am hopeful it is the right Owen kelly. and I am sure it will help me . I never thought really of long service, because I thought a person would probably be promoted after a few years. I haven't yet tried the soldiers discharged 1882-1900 series codes would that show if he was discharged online, so that I could then order the said document? :)

Peter Goodey
05-10-2006, 12:27 PM
Am I doing something wrong?
It's WO 97/3206. Note the space. 1883-1900 Kelly L - Kelly P.

If your man's in this piece, you should be able to order the documents remotely.

pejay
05-10-2006, 10:29 PM
Hi and thanks for advice. I have requested an estimate for a copy of this document, I hope he is on it and then hopefully I could get some information on him. is there a way to check? it seems I am unable to do a search on him, his name just does not appear on anything, it is almost like he never was. :confused:

Geoffers
06-10-2006, 8:31 AM
Many thanks for all the interest and help, I did try WO117 for long service but unfortunately nothing came up, and on the WO97/3206 it just came up as an invalid code. Am I doing something wrong?
The reference WO97/3206 consists of a class number - WO97 and a piece number 3206. Peter has suggested a means of searching for both, but if you ever get stuck, just try searching on the class number (e.g. WO97) and a surname, and restrict the search period to limit the numbers of hits that you get. Try getting used to the catalogue by seaching different things, it can help your research if you get used to it and what is available. Use it in conjunction with TNA's research guides.

Geoffers

Geoffers
06-10-2006, 8:45 AM
I realise everything is not online, but would the name still show? I'm afraid I don't know much about the Archives...............I haven't yet tried the soldiers discharged 1882-1900 series codes would that show if he was discharged online, so that I could then order the said document?
What is available depends on what has been put into the catalogue. So, records relating to individual soldiers have been catalogued from classes WO97 and WO121 up to about 1854. This is a great help.

Soldiers' Documents thereafter are only indexed by the first and last names in a box (or in some cases - mostly 1855-1872, the first three letters of a name) - the individual papers are held in boxes containing several records. 'Tis many years since I looked through them, from memory there are a couple of hundred documents in each box.

continued....

Geoffers
06-10-2006, 8:52 AM
continued from above.....

With a common surname such as Kelly, Smith, Jones, you can enter the surname in the word or phrase field, fairly confident that it will turn up something.

With rare surnames, for example Kindleysides or Tweedale for WO records from 1855 onwards, you have to find out where they appear alphabetically within the series as it is unlikely that they are the first or last name in a box and so a search on those names will produce no results.

Records from 1855-1872 are indexed alphabetically by the first three letters of the surname AND also by regiment.

Records from 1872 onwards are indexed by the first and last surname in a box
continued....

Geoffers
06-10-2006, 8:58 AM
continued from above.......

As I've mentioned practice with searching the catalogue helps to refine and improve technique and the chances of finding the reference that you want.

Only individually indexed entries contain any (limited) specific detail on individuals. For records catalogued generally by a surname or place, you need to go to TNA to look through them, hire a researcher, or know a friend who can go there and help. TNA does have a copying service, which can also be of use.

I'm used to searching the catalogue so I'm sure that I've made it seem more complicated than it is. If my poor explanation confuses, please ask and I'll try to clarify things.

Geoffers

pejay
08-10-2006, 9:51 AM
Hi and many thanks for your kind reply, I do not know what happened to my earlier reply it seems to have disappeared. Yes it does seem a bit confusing,, my main problem seems to be that I don't get any hits when I type in his name on a search at TNA., it is almost as if he never existed, should he appear,? I have requested an estimate for WO 97/3206 but I do not know if his name is on it. forgive me for asking what is probably very silly, but I do not know. |help|

Geoffers
08-10-2006, 10:29 AM
my main problem seems to be that I don't get any hits when I type in his name on a search at TNA., it is almost as if he never existed, should he appear,?
He may not necessarily appear as an individual. As I mentioned it depends on what has been indexed in each class of documents. TNA has somewhere around 9.5 million documents, some refer to just one or two names, many have hundreds of names. Where every single name has been indexed (a big job) then individuals will appear - e.g. the entries for WO97 up to 1854, or those in ADM29 up to about 1860-ish and entries in BT372.

After that not every individual has been indexed. So searching for your chap's full name may not return any hits. But searching just for his surname may show some results, it depends on how common the surname is. A name such as KELLY occurs quite a lot, so there is a good chance of it turning up.
continued......

Geoffers
08-10-2006, 10:31 AM
part 2....

This is where the practice searching the catalogue comes in. I always begin by searching on as little information as possible - information that is likely to be correct or not likely to be spelt in more than one way - and then revise the query if I get too many hits.

Just search on KELLY in WO97 gives 872 hits - obviously a bit too many to browse unless you are really clutching at straws. So, how to limit the number of hits? You give a time frame which suggests that the record will be found in the latter part of the 19th century. So, try searching KELLY, time frame 1882-1900 and class WO97. There are 20 hits.

continued.....

Geoffers
08-10-2006, 10:32 AM
part 3......

Looking at the names provided, they are listed alphabetically with a range of initials showing the initial of the first person and last person in the box, yours seems to be in WO97/3206.

The cost of copying the entire box would be probhibitive. It may be that if you ask TNA they will look for a specific form within a box, they may charge for this. I have corresponded with others who have done this (it may be that they struck lucky with the person who opened their request) - if you don't try you'll never know.


forgive me for asking what is probably very silly, but I do not know.
Not silly at all, if you don't know, ask. I hope this helps - I'm not too sure that I've answered the question you've asked; if you need to, please ask again.
Geoffes

pejay
08-10-2006, 1:56 PM
Many thanks for your reply, I will do as suggested, I do not feel so frustrated about TNA now I probably expected too much from them. I never thought of searching on as little as possible info,and always tried to put in as much as possible - [which usually isn't much] When I get some information on him I will update it as I really want to find out about him and then put him to rest |wave|

pejay
16-10-2006, 12:54 PM
Hi - Just to update, TNA said they did not have enough info for an estimate on WO 97/3206, so I am going to hire a private researcher to spend a couple of hours at the archives looking through the WO records in the hopes of finding something. - fingers crossed, toes too Ithink! just to be on the safe side. will post the outcome whether successful or not. :)

SueL
18-10-2006, 1:28 PM
Hello pejay,
I read your latest messages and feel for you, knowing how much you will be quoted for a search (does "an arm & a leg and a 2nd mortgage" spring to mind? )

If you don't mind hanging on for a few weeks, I'm going next Saturday week (28th) and can have a look through the boxes myself for you. If it's too much to get done all in one go, I'll be there the following Saturday, too.

Kind regards,
sueL

pejay
19-10-2006, 11:38 AM
Hi there SueL, many thanks for your reply, yes researchers do seem to charge different prices, Yes please if you really do not mind it would be great I really appreciate it. If you need anymore info just let me know :)

SueL
19-10-2006, 4:31 PM
Hi Pejay,

I'm pretty sure I've "weened" enough info from the thread so I'll update you after I've been to Kew on the 28th :)

regards,
sueL

pejay
20-10-2006, 10:56 AM
Hi SueL, thanks - I look forwaed to your update. :)

SueL
28-10-2006, 9:55 PM
Hi pejay,

I think I MAY have found something for you....

I checked out the WO 97 refs already discussed and found only 3 Owen Kelly's, none which appeared to match the info you gave:

(a) was born 1874, Dublin; joined Ryl Dublin Fusileers Aug 1892
(b) was born 1870, Carlow; joined Liverpool Rgt
(c) was born in Madras and became a Serg. Major, straight from a Private (!!) after 80 appearances in the Defaulters Book!!! No, I couldn't believe it either!

Sorry, I digress :)

So I spoke to my "friend" Jack :) and he suggested I look in WO 97/2011...

Owen Kelly, No. 208, 2nd Battn. Linc. Regt.
Discharge Papers:
Date of Discharge = 28 Feb 1882
Place of Discharge = Lincoln
Age on final Discharge = 41 years 6 months
Intended place of Residence = Redhill, Co. Cavan.

There is a list of places served which includes a period at the Cape of Good Hope and his total service calculated towards his pension was almost 24 years!!! Good grief!!

The record is very sparse and there appears to be part of it missing but there is enclosed a Medical History page which says he enlisted 6 May 1858 at Cavan, he was born, quote "Armagh, Cavan" (?)

There is also a loose sheet, a type of declaration from the 101st Cavan Regt. of Militia. It says Owen enrolled as a Volunteer (No. 1111) on 29 July 1857, aged 17yrs 9 months, but was "released from his Militia Engagement upon condition he enrolled in 10th Rgt of Foot on 6 May 1858"

The Document has also been stamped with the Royal Hospital Chelsea's stamp and No. 94793 has been filled in; definitely looks like his pension number.

Now, have you identified YOUR Owen on the 1881 & 1891 census? Jack thinks he has and the '81 shows Owen as "Oliver" 40, born Ireland, as a Private 10th Rgt. He is in Lincoln with wife Ann and 5 children, the youngest being Oliver, 1, born Lincoln.

What Jack has suggested is for me to look at some of the Muster Rolls for 1882 because he reckons Owen's wife might be named in there - also the Chelsea Pension recs as that as well, may name Owen's wife and family.

He has given me the PRO doc refs but I want to be sure that you agree with the same entry in the '81 census. If yes, then if the Musters & pension recs name Ann and the children correctly, Bingo!!

Let me know, eh? :)
sueL

pejay
29-10-2006, 4:57 PM
:) Hi there sueL first a very big thankyou for taking the time to look up the records for me at the archives. I agree about the Serg Maj I don't think that could have been him I wonder what he did - or didn't do so many times? The Owen Kelly who was discharged in 1882 sounds very positive, I put his birth year at 1841 - 1843 but wasnt 100% sure. but where in Ireland is Co Cavan? perhaps he didn't come from co Waterford after all. I thought the 1881 census was transcribed wrongly and he appeared as Oliver instead of Owen all the names, ages and birth places seem to be right, apart from the son also transcribed as Oliver !
continued

pejay
29-10-2006, 5:09 PM
contd

on the 1891 census he is actually down as owen age 49 with wife Ann 44. and children- Kate, James, John, Patrick, Maggie, Owen,Mary and Arthur, no unusual names, Mary my grandmother was born in Ireland about 1883 and died 1934. Owen died in 1897, and on his death cert it states labourer - an army pensioner, his wife Ann died in 1919 aged 70. I was really struggling with these Irish ancestors - and in desperation emailed the Army museum at Lincoln, but didn't get a reply. but now I feel it is all coming together a bit at long last, thankyou. I really appreciate all the help.

SueL
29-10-2006, 6:17 PM
Hi pejay :)

So I take it that the "Oliver" family from the '81 is definitely yours? ;)

In which case, would you like me to look at the Muster Rolls to prove ("beyond all reasonable doubt"!) that the Owen I have found is married to Ann and with kids to match?

Oh yes, and would you like a copy of the Discharge document from Kew? It won't cost more than a few pounds...once I've found Ann & kids mentioned in the Musters, I'll know he's definitely yours and I can copy the doc.

My email address is ~ susan_leggett@lineone.net ~ so you can let me know and send me your address for me to post the copy to you.

Regards,
sueL

pejay
30-10-2006, 3:06 PM
Hi there, thanks very much, I am pretty sure it is him in the1881 census, everything seems to fit, and I guess his name if written badly could look like Oliver.it would be great if you could look at muster rolls and photocopy any docs I really appreciate it. I will email you.:)

SueL
30-10-2006, 9:49 PM
OK, I'll await your email :)

Don't worry, I won't spend any of your dosh until I'm sure we're chasing the right Soldier ;)

suex

pejay
31-10-2006, 2:23 PM
Thanks,I appreciate that. |wave|

SueL
05-11-2006, 12:42 PM
Hi pejay,

I visited Kew yesterday and got out the Muster Rolls for the 2nd Batt, 10th Foot/ Lincs rgt...

Much to my disappointment, there was no trace of your Owen!! :(

There was a John Kelly but I followed him backwards for a while and his wife's name was Catherine :(

According to the Musters, between April 1879 and March 1883, the 2nd batt were in Malta and Gibraltar (PRO refs WO16/1430,1431,1432).

I also checked the 1st batt. just in case, but no, not there...

The one place I didn't have time to check was the 10th Foot's Depot Musters but I'll do that on my next visit in two weeks time. I shall also have a chat with my Military Friend to see if he can suggest anything else.

This is MOST frustrating! I really did hope I'd have some good news for you by now - sorry!

I'll let you know how it goes after my next visit...
Kind regards,
sueL
p.s. I didn't get any email from you, yet?

pejay
05-11-2006, 5:29 PM
:) Hi SueL, I have sent you another mail,I hope you get this one, I sometimes think there is a little gremlin [ or maybe a big one] inside the computer. Thanks for taking the time to look, I really appreciate it, and if you have time to look for him on your next visit that would be great He seems very elusive.I bet he didn't think all those years ago that someone would be looking for him! Let me know if you don't get my email, and I will send a private message through the site.

SueL
20-11-2006, 10:39 PM
Hi pejay,
sorry to say I still didn't get your email - I wonder if the _ between susan and leggett is giving you some grief?? :(

Anyway, not to worry, here is what I found Saturday but this now seems to raise more questions than give answers!!

I found Private Owen Kelly, No. 208 of the 10th Foot, 2nd Battalion in the Musters for 1st April 1877 to 31st March 1878 (at Dover) where he appeared in all the quarterly & half-yearly returns 100%.

His name also appeared at the back of each Muster Book in the "Married Establishment" section but unfortunately in each case, his wife's name was shown as Catherine...

It also showed the number of children with their ages to the nearest month:
June '77 = 2 children, 3years+3months and 1year+8months
Sep '77 = 2 children, 3yrs+6mths and 1yr+11mths
Mar '78 = 3 children, 4yrs, 2yrs+5mths and 1year+5months

So! we have an anomaly!! Where did this last child pop up from? Could Owen's first wife have died, he remarried a woman who already had a child?? (or is that too much of a long shot??) Could she have been Ann but the Muster Book did not get altered???

I found Owen in the next Muster Book covering April '78 to Sept '78 but he was only there from 1st April to 31st July because on the 1st August he was "Transferred to Depot". He did however, still show up in the Married Establishment list with Catherine & the same children plus 6 months on all their ages shown in Mar '78. It also gives a date of his 1st entry in the Marr'd Estab. list of 6 May 1874 - could this be the date Owen married???

The children's ages appear to (almost!) match those given to the children shown in the 1881 census:
The child who was 3 years+3months in June '77 would have been just turning 7 in April of 1881.
2nd child, 1year+8months in June '77 would be 5yrs&5mnths - could have been recorded as 6??
3rd child, 1yr+5mths in Mar'78, would be 4yrs&5mths - would have been recorded as just 4.

Now, we know the enumerator recorded Owen with a wrong name in the 1881 census - I wonder if he got any other info wrong??

This Owen in the Muster Books is obviously the Owen I found the Discharge papers for, as the number 208 is a positive match but even with this, I'm not entirely convinced we've got the "correct" Owen / YOUR Owen...

...what I'd like to do is see if I can get any further info from his Chelsea Pension number - you never know!! :)

Can you hold on a bit longer for me to visit again & I'll see what else I can find?

Regards,
sue

SueL
20-11-2006, 11:16 PM
p.s.
just had a quick nosey on FreeBMD and have found all the birth entries for the children shown on the '81 census, including the 1st born, Kate who was in fact a Catherine (confirmed on the '91 census) - Medway, Apr-Jun 1874.

Have you thought about getting this birth cert for Catherine/Kate? It may well show her mother's FULL name....which I'd love to think may have been Catherine!! :)

pejay
21-11-2006, 12:44 PM
Hi, many thanks for the interest, and taking the timeout to look for his records at Kew. I have sent you yet another email, just posted it, someone must be getting them!.This person is really elusive, I have a copy of Owens birth cert born 15/2/1880 that does state Ann formerly Mcguire as the mother, I wonder if she had a middle name which could have been Ann or Catherine?, I really don't know if we could be barking up the wrong tree - so to speak on this one.Their eldest was Kate, followed by John,then James,Patrick, Owen, Maggie, Mary {my grandmother} who was the only sibling to be born in Ireland, and then Arthur, so I suppose James was the mystery child, I think he was born 1877. Though I am not sure why - even if he was living in some other place he didn't appear on the muster rolls.I have looked high and low for a marriage date so I could get cert, but alas - out of luck. I have looked on Free BMD,IGI, the 1837 website and also Ancestry. I thought it would be around 1 one.Their eldest was Kate, followed by John,then James,Patrick, Owen, Maggie, Mary {my grandmother} who was the only sibling to be born in Ireland, and then Arthur, so I suppose James was the mystery child, I think he was born 1877. Though I am not sure why - even if he was living in some other place he didn't appear on the muster rolls.I have looked high and low for a marriage date so I could get cert, but alas - out of luck. I have looked on Free BMD,IGI, the 1837 website and also Ancestry. I thought it would be around 1873/74 so it could indeed be a date to go on. I know Kelly is apparently the 2nd commonest name in Ireland following Murphy {so things could be worse} so perhaps there was more than one in the 10th foot? I am more than happy to wait a bit longer to find out answers about him. I will now put on my thinking cap, and see if I can think of anymore possibilities. Once again, many thanks. |wave|

SueL
21-11-2006, 10:04 PM
Hi pejay,

I agree, most frustrating!! I am also now wondering if there could have been another Owen Kelly in the 10th Foot..and possibly left after 1882??? It does seem highly unlikely that the one I found is not yours as so much points to Lincoln...along with being the right age and born in the right country.

Still, I thought I might try having a shufty in the Discharge papers from 1883 onwards (the 1st Owen was in the box upto 1882).

There were an awful lot of soldiers in the 10th Foot (!) so I suppose it's possible there was another one lurking in a different Battalion...unlikely, but possible ;)

I also have his pension entry to follow up so....hang on in there :)

suex

blue eyes
21-11-2006, 10:33 PM
Found the following on the Militia Attestations index

Royal Garrison Artillery 1872-1915

Owen Kelly birthplace St. George Dublin, Ireland, Militia Dublin, TNA ref W096/1333 sequence 165.

Julie

pejay
22-11-2006, 8:04 PM
:) Hi, it is all very frustrating, I have no living relatives that can help me, I tried an Aunt - no luck, I tried my mother again, but no joy, Hi Julie - and thanks for your response , not sure what it means though, excuse me I think my brain must have dried up at the moment, sooner or later I am sure all will be revealed, and then hopefully I can put him and his family to sleep [for a very long time] and move onto something else. I have more Irish ancestors [sorry] I suspect they may well give me some grief, but that's another story.... :confused: I really appreciate all the help I can get, I am sure my grandmother Mary was born in 1883 in Ireland, how and where I do not know, and I know by 1891 he was working as a labourer in Lincoln. Kelly is a very common name, and I or a very long time] and move onto something else. I have more Irish ancestors [sorry] I suspect they may well give me some grief, but that's another story.... :confused: I really appreciate all the help I can get, I am sure my grandmother Mary was born in 1883 in Ireland, how and where I do not know, and I know by 1891 he was working as a labourer in Lincoln. Kelly is a very common name, and I agree there could have been another Owen Kelly in the 10th foot [lurking in the woodwork] waiting to confuse us all.

SueL
25-11-2006, 4:28 PM
Hi pejay,

I've had another look at all the other Owen Kelly's but none of them come anywhere near the first match. They are all much too young or have absolutely nothing to do with Lincoln or the 10th Foot.

I also tried to follow through the 1st Owen's Chelsea Pension number but regrettably the records stop at number 94760 and his number was 94793!!!!
:( How frustrating!!! I'm going to ask the "Experts" there on my next trip...

I also spoke with my Military Mate who tells me one of his soldiers, positively identified by other info, appeared in the Married Establishment records but the name of his wife was wrong! Does this then look good that YOUR Owen might be the one we found with the wife's name incorrect? As I said, the name shown was Catherine and, after all, that was the name of his first child, wasn't it?? I also gave all Owen's details to my friend and he said he can't believe that it's not the correct one....

If I don't get any joy on Owen's Pension number, the only way around this - a looooong route! - is to follow back this Owen's service and find out exactly where he was stationed at the time of your Owen's children's births...if he was in the right place at the right time for ALL their births, then I would feel very confident that it's the right man.

What say you?
suex

pejay
25-11-2006, 8:09 PM
Hi SueL and many thanks for your help and persistance, in looking for this guy, who just does not want to be found , i really appreciate it. |cheers| I wish I knew more about him, I do not know about his wife - and whether she had a middle name, but it does seem strange she called her first daughter Kate who was born about 1874 in Kent.John was the next born Aldershot about 1875/76.Patrick seems to vary from Welby, to warley,Worley? in Lincs and also Essex. my grandmother was definately born in Ireland about 1883, and they were back in Lincoln for the birth of Arthur 1885/86. why they were in Ireland I do not know, but they didn't stay for too long! I keep wondering where to go next, must put thinking cap on again - it may do do some good.!|wave|

phil9560
04-12-2007, 4:34 PM
Hiya Pejay.How are you progressing with your research ? We've communicated before on this subject.My Grandmother Gladys would've been your Mother's cousin-I think.Phil.

pejay
09-12-2007, 8:56 PM
Hi there, not progressing at all at the moment, seem to be at stalemate, I keep trying though. One of these days I will go to Ireland for sightseeing and research but where to go? .... not exactly 100% on that.|computer|