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Sharon Medley
13-06-2006, 7:58 PM
Was wondering if someone would be kind enough to do a lookup for me?
Looking for a James and Elizabeth Gates with a son Frederick (b. 1846).Found a marriage of a James Gates & Elizabeth Elder in Midhurst and a birth of a Frederick in Lymington (believe both are in Sussex).
Thank you, Sharon

Jane M
14-06-2006, 4:12 PM
Hi Sharon,
Midhurst is in SUSSEX & Lymington is in HAMPSHIRE.
This site will help in identifying where places are...as I see you are in the States. http://www.fhsc.org.uk/genuki/REG/
There were 2 or 3 marriages of James Gates in Midhurst on FreeBMD so you need to be more sure of the facts before you go much further otherwise you'll be chasing the wrong Gates line! If you can give us more detail perhaps we can help,

jane

Sharon Medley
14-06-2006, 5:07 PM
Thank you Jane for the link, it will come in handy.
Right now I'm chasing my tail. When I first started researching Frederick Gates
I was sure that I found him in Stepney to parents John & Eliza Gates. His date of birth was the same date that I had in the 1901 Canadian census. When I found a copy of his marriage record in Canada it is stated that his parents were James and Elizabeth Gates. His marriage and death reg. only state born in England. I've been looking at freeBMD and looking for marriages of a John and Elizabeth and births of a Frederick in around the same area of England (did not know what else to do, if you have any better ideas they would be appreciated.)
Sharon

Sharon Medley
14-06-2006, 5:08 PM
RETRACTION: Looking for marriages of JAMES not John and Elizabeth.
Sharon

Jane M
14-06-2006, 6:22 PM
That looks like looking for a needle in a haystack!

So you're looking for Frederick Gates born approx. 1846, somewhere in England, parents, James & Elizabeth Gates.
1. When did he emigrate to Canada? Any documentation?
2. Did the 1901 Canadian census confirm his dob?
3. Did his death registration confirm his dob?

I think your first priority would be to find the documentation of when he went to Canada. That might state a place of birth in England or at least the port of departure.

Jane

Sharon Medley
14-06-2006, 7:19 PM
Jane,
According to the 1901 Canadian census he emigrated to Canada in 1865, no documentaion, it also confirmed his birth date. His death registration has the birth date 1847 not 1846, informant was his wife who was 70 at the time of his death and may have been a little confused and distraught at the time. It is my understanding that passenger lists were kind of iffy prior to 1869.
I have not been able to find him in the 1871 Canadian census, he does not appear to be a head of household and I've looked at all the James Gates in 1871 and do not have one married to an Elizabeth or have a son Frederick.
In the 1881 census he is now married with 2 children.
Sharon

Jane M
15-06-2006, 10:11 AM
Hi sharon,
The only possible siting I have is in 1851, Marylebone, Middlesex HO107/1490/392/20
Frederick Gates 1845 b. Marylebone, Middlesex
Son of James Gates b. 1806, Yarmouth, Norfolk & Betsy (a pet name for Elizabeth) b. 1812, Marylebone.
1861 for the same couple RG9/90/45/6 still at Marylebone gives her name as Elizabeth. Can't find a 15 year old Frederick though...he's not with them.
Have you found any other family members emigrating to Canada with Frederick (he was only 19) or before him, that might give a clue. Who was he with in those Canadian census?

Jane

Sharon Medley
15-06-2006, 12:57 PM
Jane,
Have not been able to find him in the 1871 census, 1881 census he is married and living with his wife and 2 children, occupation is gasfitter. Records of childrens births and other censuses show plumber.So he must have learned a trade someplace.
Sharon

Jane M
15-06-2006, 3:40 PM
Hi Sharon,

Where in Canada was he on the 1901 Canadian census?
Is there a chance you can find a grave stone inscription for him. I've seen immigrant MI's that sometime state something like, 'Joe Bloggs born 1846, Surrey England'.
I think it's critical you find the information regarding his passage to Canada, like all good family researchers we should work backwards & there seems to be a gap as to when, how & why he went to Canada. All this information really helps to build up a profile of the man! There are some searchable sites on the web for Canadian immigration. Do you know if, at that time, naturilastion (spelling?)papers were drawn up giving this immigrants Canadian nationality? That could be another avenue to explore.
I'll keep digging & let you know if anything turns up,

Jane

Sharon Medley
15-06-2006, 10:16 PM
In 1881 and 1901 he was in Ontario, he appears there also at the time of his death. I have written to the cemetery where he and his wife have been buried. I have not heard back from them and do not know if they would have any head stone info. I have not had a chance to get to Canada yet ( I wish that I had started my genealogy work when I lived in New York Stae, would have been a whole lot easier since all of my side of the family came from Canada, some from England and some from Ireland).
I have been going over the 1871 census looking at all the Gates in Ontario, they either came from Ireland or are not Church of England which all the documents that I have on Frederick and his wife states that they claim to be.
I have now started to check the 1881 census to see if there are any Gates living around his area at that time.
I have not found any naturalization for him, as yet.
Sharon

Jane M
16-06-2006, 7:15 AM
Hi Sharron,

Obviously Frederick doesn't want to be found!
I've been doing a bit of detective work with the BMD index trying to find his birth registration but will post my findings a little later as I have to go out & my internet connection is being painfully slow.
I'll contact you later today!

Jane

Jane M
16-06-2006, 3:30 PM
Hi Sharon,

I've checked the BMD index for birth registrations for Frederick Gates, all quarters for 1846 & 1847, in the hope that I could match the Frederick Gates born in that district on that date with the 1851 census. You can also check for yourself here.

I didn't check beyond the spelling GATES, a possibility that he was registered under a different spelling.

1846 4th quarter yielded,
1. Unnamed male Gates Cranbrook reg. district (Kent) V 89
2. Unnamed male Gates Handsworth reg. district (Staffordshire) IV 561? also on FreeBMD.
But looking at the 1851 for both districts in the name of Gates didn't show a Frederick.

1847 1st quarter Frederick Gates Hemel Hemstead (Hertfordshire) VI 558
1851 showed Frederick with parents james & Mary Ann (James was a butcher)

1847 3rd quarter Frederick Gates Lymington (Hampshire) VIII 147
1851 - this one is not clear as there are Gates families in Lymington but no Frederick & the two James's listed there are quite elderly.

1861 is not giving me any clues either. Perhaps his mother Elizabeth died prior to the 1851 census & his father james remarried?

Sorry I can't be of more help,

Sharon Medley
16-06-2006, 5:43 PM
Jane, You have helped more than I expected. I had sent away for the birth reg. for Frederick Gates in Hemel Hemstead. I shows father as James Gates and Maryann Gates formely (looks like Brandom). I have just ordered from GRO the reg. for the 1852 Lymington birth. On the 1881 British census I did find a James and Elizabeth Gates. James is 70 and born in Antrogus, Cheshire England, occ.: blacksmith, Elizabeth is 68, born in Devenham, Cheshire England., that would make them 35 and 33 when Frederick was born, will persue that when I have a chance. When I was researching Frederick when I thought that his parents were John and Eliza in Stepney I found a lot of records that had been transcribed as YATES.
Thank you again for all your help.
Sharon

Jane M
16-06-2006, 5:50 PM
Hope you find him Sharon, but I would still strongly chase when & where he landed in Canada & if there were any other family members with him...that would help to pin him down in the UK prior to his travels!


Jane

Bashford Sussex
23-08-2008, 6:05 PM
5. Frederick GATES - 1881 British Census / Hampshire
Head Gender: Male Birth: <1846> Sway, Hampshire, England
6. Frederick GATES - 1881 British Census / Hampshire
Head Gender: Male Birth: <1846> Brockenhurst, Hampshire, England
7. Frederick GATES - 1881 British Census / Sussex
Head Gender: Male Birth: <1846> Brighton, Sussex, England


all 3 can be found on the latterday saints site www.familysearch.org