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topo60
24-05-2006, 5:47 PM
A little light reading...!!!
For the last 10 years I've been searching for any information about my grandfather. All I have is a marriage certificate with a great deal of information. Unfortunately they all lead to dead ends. His name was William John Glover and aged 20 when he married in June 1920. He isn't on the 1901 census (or any variation of his name). There isn't a birth in the GRO indexes around 1900 (+/- 3 years). His occupation and that of his father John (deceased) is shown as Indoor domestic servant. I've even visited the house (now flats) in London where he worked. (I know more about his employers than him!) Six years after the wedding ceremony my grandmother remarried and was shown as a widow (1926). Again there is no death shown for my grandfather in the GRO indexes. I've tried Scottish records, Overseas, Consular and military records, even several appeals on Family Tree, Channel 4 - nothing. The wedding took place in Brighton and I've found the Parish records of the Banns and the place where my Grandmother lived with her son - born six weeks after the wedding - probably after the ceremony my grandfather left the church and kept on 'walking'. Can anyone suggest any other avenues to try?
Judith

Peter Goodey
24-05-2006, 6:13 PM
"His name was William John Glover and aged 20 when he married in June 1920...There isn't a birth in the GRO indexes around 1900 (+/- 3 years). "

Well, I can see William John GLOVER 1900 March West Ham 4a 396

busyglen
24-05-2006, 6:18 PM
You seem to have tried all avenues, but a thought occurred to me which you have probably tried already. You say that William married in Brighton, so I assume you have tried the Censuses for that area, for father John?

It's quite possible that William didn't give his correct age at the time of the marriage and therefore wouldn't be found in the 1901. My gt.grandfather took two years off his age and lied about his father being deceased, so anything is possible.

Could he have been illegitimate, and made up father's name which is why you can't trace him? Or could he have taken on the name of the man he called father, which is why you can't find a birth? Having said that, you have found where they worked, so probably not the case.

Just a couple of thoughts.

Glenys

busyglen
24-05-2006, 6:21 PM
Well done Peter!

ET in the USA
24-05-2006, 6:22 PM
Of course you couldn't list everything you have searched over 10 years, so this may be too obvious and a duplication of that you already tried.

Have you tried looking for Wm Glover's father, John, as listed on the marriage cert ? Looked, say, for a marriage, Wm.'s siblings, on the 1871, 1881, 1891 census, his death, etc. Finding anything might give you an idea of where they lived, where he might have been born and even common spellings (incorrect) of the name, like maybe Glower.

If he was under 21, didn't he need a parent present at the marriage or a note of consent ? Perhaps in the parish register where the marriage was recorded, the note would be copied also. (I have seen these).

Have you looked at the birth cert. for your father ? I assume Wm. Glover is really shown as the father. Any more clues on the birth cert ? If you don't have it, it might yield something.

As a last resort, skip WIlliam, assume he is the father, for now, and work on John & his wife, and on back. This may yield some clue.

ET in the USA
24-05-2006, 6:25 PM
To carry on the West Ham theme and the 1900 date. There is this

Marriages Mar 1899
GLOVER John W. Ham 4a 103
Knott Sarah W. Ham 4a 103

topo60
24-05-2006, 6:34 PM
Thanks everyone for your 'thoughts'.

The William John Glover born in West Ham - I already have that birth certificate unfortunately the 'father' isn't the same as the one on the marriage certificate - name and occupation are different.

All other avenues suggested have been explored and are 'dead' ends.

Maybe my grandmother was a bigamist - now there's a thought!!
Judith

Peter Goodey
24-05-2006, 8:41 PM
So it was just a bit of economy to say that "there isn't a birth in the GRO indexes around 1900 (+/- 3 years"? :D

I don't know about anyone else but a little warning bell always sounds for me when I see on a marriage certificate father's name: John (deceased). ;)

busyglen
25-05-2006, 9:40 AM
I don't know about anyone else but a little warning bell always sounds for me when I see on a marriage certificate father's name: John (deceased). ;)

It does for me too Peter as I mentioned. I have my gt.gt. grandfather's death cert. which came after his son's marriage thus proving he was very much `alive'. It seems obvious that my gt.gt. grandfather didn't approve of the marriage as his son was underage, so his son conveniently said he was `deceased' at the time of the wedding to get around it.

This `could' be the case here.

Glenys

Geoffers
25-05-2006, 9:56 AM
The William John Glover born in West Ham - I already have that birth certificate unfortunately the 'father' isn't the same as the one on the marriage certificate - name and occupation are different.
I would also be cautious as mentioned by Peter's last message. But another thought, one of my family was married under the name Robert, on his daughter's marriage certificate he is shown as George. How come? he was born George Robert! People don't always use their first name, or all their names - and occupations do change. It may not be the explanation here, but it's worth hanging onto the certificate for the time being.

Geoffers

topo60
26-05-2006, 3:58 PM
Can someone who is a railwayman become a domestic servant? That is the problem I have with the father of William John Glover from West Ham (his name is Arthur John Glover) and what is on William John's marriage certificate.

I always follow the 'golden rule' in family research - NEVER THROW ANYTHING AWAY - you can be sure you will need the information at some time in the future.
Judith

ET in the USA
26-05-2006, 4:13 PM
My opinion, for what it is worth ... domestic servants aren't only Butlers with years of training like Mr. Hudson on Upstairs Downstairs. I don't imagine much training was needed for some of the lower level jobs. I had 6 or 7 Worcester teens who had an Uncle in London and he got them all jobs in various domestic situations. When he died, they took the money and opened Boarding Houses in Weston-super-Mare, Somerset. Don't know if Footman and Nursemaid provided much training for that either.

So, If you lose your job on the Railway, you could probably change to domestic servant without much trouble, as there are Indoor DS and Outdoor DS. Maybe he cleared the fields just like he cleared the brush around the tracks. Nothing seems to say what he actually did for the Railway.

Geoffers
26-05-2006, 9:11 PM
Can someone who is a railwayman become a domestic servant?
Yes, why not?

One of my maternal great-grandfather's worked down a mine as a child, grew up to become an engine driver on the mine railway, then worked a traction engine, then became a mayor's attendent (glorified domestic servant).

Geoffers

ChristineR
27-05-2006, 4:58 AM
You also need to bear in mind that he may not have known his father whilst growing up - this leads to hearsay when it comes to passing on details. He only knows what he has been told by his mother or other family.

I have a family (Australia) where the father died whilst the children were infants. One of these children did not know his parents names when he married; and another gave a wrong father's name and wrong mother's maiden name on her marriage registration. One had the occupation wrong, one right. In this case, both had their ages and birthplaces spot on, and an uncommon surname helped. The mother of this same family fibbed about her own father's occupation when married - said he was a surgeon, when in fact that was most likely her uncle in the same town! Her father was variously a labourer, indoor servant, weaver and gardener.

Another family - two siblings married the same year, one girl gave her father's occupation as gentleman, the other - a miner.

Christine :)