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Arthur Pye
03-05-2006, 4:40 PM
I found an entry in the Death Duty Registers Index for 1902 in 1837 online (recently transferred from National Archivist) relating to my ggrandmother, Caroline Ann PYE. I've read 1837's explanations and followed links to National Archive info. But I still don't undestand how I can use the entry. It tells me that the executor was T.B.Pye (her husband) and that there was no will (Admon). The Registry is "PR" which I presume to be the Principal Probate Registry and there's an Affidavit number of 769.

Now I understand that TNA has indexes IR26 and IR27 but I can't see how I can link the entry I found into IR26/27. Can somebody please point me in the right direction? Or maybe that I would not find any useful info anyway?

Peter Goodey
03-05-2006, 5:30 PM
I don't know if this will help -

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=107

Arthur Pye
04-05-2006, 8:50 PM
I don't know if this will help -

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=107
Thanks for that. I'd already read that leaflet, but although it tells me what I may find, I'm not clear what I'm likely to find in relation to what I believe would be a straightforward probate case within a non-wealthy family.

And, more to the point, unless I'm missing something, it doesn't tell me how the information in the Death Duty Registers Index will help me find the related information in IR 26/27, and, in particular, what use if any is the Affidavit number? Sorry, if I'm being dumb here.

Mythology
04-05-2006, 9:31 PM
"it doesn't tell me how the information in the Death Duty Registers Index will help me find the related information in IR 26/27, and, in particular, what use if any is the Affidavit number?"

The short answer is that I reckon you're on a hiding to nothing with your particular one, but I will expand ...

The Death Duty Registers Index that you are looking at on the 1837online site *is* IR27.

To cross reference from the index (IR27) to the actual registers (IR26), which are not online, you need the *folio* number, not the affidavit number.
Looking at your one, the column headed "Folio" is blank, as are most on that page.

Why?

The relevant bit in the "Wills and Death Duty Records, after 1858" TNA leaflet (my emboldening) is this:
"From 1858, there should be a death duty record for all estates worth more than 20. However, unless the assets were valued at 1,500 or more, the taxes were often not collected, and so the register entry was not filled in with all the details. Tax was payable on bequests to anyone other than the husband or wife."

I'm not sure *exactly* what they mean by "not filled in with all the details", I've never looked at these later registers, so if you were to plough through the whole lot looking, I don't know whether you'd find something like just the name and the amount or whether it would be a straightforward case of no folio number, no entry at all in the register, but it does not look at all promising!

Mythology
04-05-2006, 9:56 PM
For possible future use if you come across one which *does* have a folio number ...

Let us go down the page to 17 July 1902, where we find two entries, the second one being for Edward Pye of Saundby. His affidavit number is 4661 - but he also has a *folio* number, 2704. :)

So - how do we find the appropriate register for his entry?

Using the Catalogue search on the TNA site
Put an asterisk in the first box
Use 1902 to 1902 as your years
Put IR26 in the last box
And hit the button

The sixteen pages of results represent the full listing for the year 1902, in order of grouped surnames, so we take a guess and hit page 10. This starts off being K-M, then changes to being N-R at IR26/8353.
So, IR26/8353 is the first of the N-R ones, and if we keep going, we find that IR26/8393 (on page 12 of the search results) is the last of the N-R ones.
If we click that last one, then click the full details tab, we find that it covers folios 4801 to 4920, which gives us a rough idea of where we might find the one with folio 2704 - it's actually IR26/8375, covering folios 2641 to 2760, and the mathematically minded can work this out instead of taking a guesswork stab by starting with the first one and adding 120 for each reference!

Mythology
04-05-2006, 10:13 PM
Afterthough, for clarity ...

"the mathematically minded can work this out instead of taking a guesswork stab by starting with the first one and adding 120 for each reference!"

The first one for that surname group, not the very first one in the whole list - each surname group starts at folio 1.

Arthur Pye
06-05-2006, 11:05 PM
Mythology, very many thanks for that reply, sorry for the delay in responding. That answers all of my questions and this has become a "cut out and keep" thread for future reference. As you say, I am very unlikely to gain any further information re this particular admon, so I shan't try to pursue it any further.

On looking again at 1837 online, I see that the Death Duty Registers ARE identified as IR 27, I'd totally missed that.

Anyway, I'll do some more dipping into IR27, in the hope of finding some entries which are worth following up.

Thanks again for your time and your detailed reply.