PDA

View Full Version : Ships Passanger List - Baird - 1811



Glenn Baird
05-02-2006, 5:31 PM
I am looking for a John Baird who possably set sail for Canada from Maryport or a nearby port sometime between Jan 10 1811 and 7 Feb 1811.
It's the only connection I have back to England.

He may have been listed as the Captain of the brig Betsy sailing out of Maryport about the same time.
Records shows he worked for W. Smith and Co. in 1811 (when the record of employment was filed is unknown to me)

He may have been the same John Baird who married Mary Barnes in St. Marys, Carlisle on 09 Jan 1811.
Listed in the parish register, Church of England. St. Mary's Church (Carlisle, Cumberland)

Canadian records from 1809 to 1813 are virtually non-existent.
The ship may have landed in Nova Scotia or New Brunswick.

Ships record may also show a birth of a boy to Mary on 8 Feb.

Were there records kept of these ships departing, are there passanger lists and where can I find them?


Glenn Baird

Geoffers
05-02-2006, 5:46 PM
Were there records kept of these ships departing, are there passanger lists and where can I find them?
Ships with insured cargoes will be recorded, you might try Lloyds

Outward passenger lists were not required to be kept until 1890. To the best of my knowlegde, there are very few prior to then. The 'Immigrant Ship Transcribers Guild' (I think that's the correct name) has a web-site listing passengers, but I think the majority of these will be from records made of debarkation.

See TNA's research guides
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/researchguidesindex.asp
csroll down to 'P' for passenger lists and 'M' for Merchant Seamen.

Geoffers

Glenn Baird
05-02-2006, 7:21 PM
I found the Betsy at TNA but before the date I need.
The Guild dosn't show any ship to Canada in 1811.
Maybe I'll have to look for local civil and parish record in the area.
Thanks

Glenn

Geoffers
05-02-2006, 9:38 PM
I'm trying to think of ways forward with this and struggling - but -

What did John Baird do for a living in Canada?

Did he emigrate with any other Bairds? Does the name of his wife, and the son born in transit, tie up with the family that you know lived in Canada?

When did he die?

Does the Cumbria Record Office hold the records of W. Smith & Co? (if they have survived).

Geoffers

Glenn Baird
05-02-2006, 10:08 PM
As far as we know he came alone with his wife. She had a son while on board ship on 08 Feb 1811. We know John was a Captain and his wife’s name was Mary Barnes. The family settled down in and around Kings, New Brunswick, Canada. We have about 60 Baird's in the area leading back to John. We are not certain when he died but believe it was in the 1834 and was accidental.

The only record we can find is 1 IGI listing a John Baird marring Mary Barnes at St Marys Carlisle on 09 Jan 1811.
There were 2 Baird and a few Barnes living in Carlisle at the time but no listing of a John. There is a J. Baird who was a master of the brig Betsy.
%message=As far as we know he came alone with his wife. She had a son while on board ship on 08 Feb 1811. We know John was a Captain and his wife’s name was Mary Barnes. The family settled down in and around Kings, New Brunswick, Canada. We have about 60 Baird's in the area leading back to John. We are not certain when he died but believe it was in the 1834 and was accidental.

The only record we can find is 1 IGI listing a John Baird marring Mary Barnes at St Marys Carlisle on 09 Jan 1811.
There were 2 Baird and a few Barnes living in Carlisle at the time but no listing of a John. There is a J. Baird who was a master of the brig Betsy.
http://www.stevebulman.f9.co.uk/cumbria/maryport_shipping1811.html
I've checked with the author and he has no other info to offer.
Maybe I've got the wrong person.

Glenn

Geoffers
06-02-2006, 12:24 PM
We are not certain when he died but believe it was in the 1834 and was accidental.
Dashed inconsiderate of him to pop his clogs so soon.

Some other thoughts, which you may alrady have considered.....

1) Is there a memorial to him where he is buried and does it by any slight chance of a miracle say "John Baird, late of Carlisle......."?

2) Did he leave a will? Have you tried searching the online PCC wills
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/campaign/docsonline.htm?source=docsonline

continued....

Geoffers
06-02-2006, 12:25 PM
part 2....

3) More convoluted but read on.....

You've found a marriage for John Baird in Carlisle - was this marriage by licence or banns? If it was by licence, who was recorded as the bondsman in the licence allegation? (it will be a father/guardian of bride or groom). When did this father die and did he leave a will in which he mentions his son "John Baird now residing in Canada...."?

Who were the witnesses to the marriage? Can you trace them in census returns to find out where they were born? If any of the witnesses were related to John Baird (hopefully brother/sister), then you would have a place of birth for at least some of them and so may be able to find a baptism for John Baird. Does his birth then tie up with the age at death of your chap in Canada?

With the baptisms from a parish register, you will have the parents names, again look for a will for the father to see if he mentions his son "John Baird now residing in Canada."

Can you find the John Baird who married in Carlisle in the 1841/51 census in England, thus showing that he's the wrong chap?

Geoffers

Glenn Baird
06-02-2006, 12:46 PM
I found his son's marker:
KI2M-003 = UPHAM PARISH - Upham St Peter's Anglican Cemetery
Located in churchyard in village of Upham. Compiled by Ernest Friars, 1980.
BAIRD:
04: Ann J. d. Sep 1870 ae 15 yrs 7 mos
Isabella d. Mar 1861 ae 11 yrs 7 mos
Infant daughter d. Jun 1866
Children of William & S. A. [....]
{sunk in ground - probably Baird}
05: William Baird d. Jun 1897 ae 86 yrs
wife, Sarah Ann d. Jan 1907 ae 90 yrs
06: Ella Annette Baird 1901 - 1971 {nee Fletcher}
Erected by daughter and son-in-law
Marian & Frank Allaby and family
59: E. Annette - see FLETCHER

Can't find a will.

Glenn Baird
06-02-2006, 12:54 PM
A record does exist, but I'm not sure how get it. I found the IGI in the Latter Day Saints site.
Title
Parish registers, 1648-1938
Authors
Church of England. St. Mary's Church (Carlisle, Cumberland) (Main Author)
Notes
Microfilm of original records in the Dean and Chapter Library, Carlisle, Cumberland.

Geoffers
06-02-2006, 3:23 PM
I found his son's marker:
KI2M-003 = UPHAM PARISH - Upham St Peter's Anglican Cemetery
Do you mean that the son moved back to England from Canada - and is this definitely the son of your John Baird?

If in England, Which Upham??

Geoffers

Glenn Baird
06-02-2006, 9:33 PM
Sorry That is Upham New Brunswick Canada.
The 1881 census shows him as "Beard"
Sarah Ann is Sarah Ann Lackie
It also shows James A (my great grandfather)

The eldest son is also listed as "Beard" married to Annie.

I know the '81, '01 and the '11 census are really a mess for the spelling of last names in NB.
Alot of early church record were lost over the years.
The marriage papers of William and Sarah Ann are also missing.

Glenn