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View Full Version : John Charles Markee, bn Switzerland a British Subject, my total brick wall!!



swiggin74
18-12-2005, 12:21 PM
Hello,

My GG Grandfather was John Charles Markee bn 1850 in Switzerland a British Subject (this has also been spelt Marakee on his marriage cert). He married Mary Ann Kilroy on 13/7/1874, in the Roman Catholic Chapel in Wolverhampton, Staffordshire.
The first time that I can find him on the census is in 1891, this is where it is stated that he was bn in Switzerland a British Subject. He is living in Lawyers Fields, Wolverhampton and is a railway labourer. In 1881 his children are living with their grandparents, James and Mary Kilroy, in the same house in Lawyers Fields. However John Charles and his wife are not there. I can find no record of them elsewhere. Maybe he was working on the railways??
On his marriage cert his father is shown as Joseph Marakee, stone mason.
I have been on the national archives and searched for naturalisation records for John Charles, but have drawn a blank. Has anyone got any idea how I can find out where he was born, when he entered the UK and indeed just get beyond this brick wall?!
Many Thanks
Sam.

uksearch
18-12-2005, 1:50 PM
It may help if you post the 1891 Census details|idea| .

UK

swiggin74
18-12-2005, 2:35 PM
The 1891 census details are as follows:

RG12/2232, Folio: 55, Page: 19
John Ch Markee, Head, Marr, 40, General labourer, Switzerland BS
Mary Ann Markee, wife, Marr, 38, Wolverhampton, Staffs
Mary Ellen Markee, daug, 15, school teacher, Wolverhampton, Staffs
Felicitza A Markee, daug, 14, scholar, Wolverhampton, Staffs
Lucy Agnes Markee, daug, 12, scholar, Wolverhampton, Staffs
Angela B Markee, daug, 9, scholar, Wolverhampton, Staffs
Rose Markee, daug, 6, scholar, Wolverhampton, Staffs
Stephen Kilroy, nephew, 9, scholar, Wolverhampton, Staffs

uksearch
18-12-2005, 2:59 PM
Have you found Mary Ann on earlier Census returns?

UK

Peter Goodey
18-12-2005, 5:58 PM
1. No offence meant but could someone give a second opinion on the 1891 census?

2. What was Lawyer's Fields like in 1891? In 1881 they were mostly Irish.

3. What number Lawyer's Fields?

4. I can offer this from 1881:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
James KILROY Head M Male 55 Ireland Labourer Farm
Mary KILROY Wife M Female 48 Ireland
Mary E. KILROY Dau Female 8 Wolverhampton, Stafford, England Scholar
Phebe A. KILROY Daur Female 4 Wolverhampton, Stafford, England Scholar
Lucy KILROY Dau Female 2 Wolverhampton, Stafford, England

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling 17 Lawyer's Fields
Census Place Wolverhampton, Stafford, England
Family History Library Film 1341670
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 2800 / 93
Page Number 19

I was looking at the children in particular - probably a red herring but the given names and ages look a bit similar!

Has someone got the means of checking the 1881 A. KILROY Daur Female 4 Wolverhampton, Stafford, England Scholar
Lucy KILROY Dau Female 2 Wolverhampton, Stafford, England

swiggin74
18-12-2005, 8:48 PM
In 1881 the children of James Kilroy are in fact his grandchildren. There surnames should be Markee. They are living in the same house as the Markees were living in in 1891. I think that James Kilroy and his wife Mary died between 1881 and 1891.
In 1871 I have found Mary Ann Kilroy living with her parents James and Mary.

Lawyer's Fields, Wolverhampton RG10/2936, Folio: 121 Page: 22
Name Related Age Occupation Birth Place
James Kilroy Head 37 Farm Labourer Roscommon, Ireland
Mary Kilroy Wife 34 Roscommon, Ireland
Mary Ann Kilroy Dau 18 Dress Maker Wolverhampton, Staffs
Bridget Kilroy Dau 11 Scholar Roscommon, Ireland
Agnes Kilroy Dau 7 Scholar Roscommon, Ireland

I believe that Lawyers Fields was a predominantly Irish area. John Charles Markee was living on the Stafford Road, Wolverhampton when he married in 1874. His wife's address is shown as Lawyer's fields.

swiggin74
18-12-2005, 8:54 PM
By the way, Felicitza Markee was my great grandmother, and every certificate that I have with her name on, throws up another version - Phillis Ann, Felicitza Ann, Phebe Ann, Cissie!!

Peter Goodey
18-12-2005, 10:59 PM
Try this one then - 1901 census (TNA) indexed under MARKE.

This shows John as having been born in Switzerland (BS)

Have you tried the overseas indexes?

Peter Goodey
18-12-2005, 11:01 PM
I lied by the way. It's Switzerland (SS).

swiggin74
18-12-2005, 11:24 PM
What is the reference number for this census record? I can't find it on ancestry.

Regards
Sam.

swiggin74
18-12-2005, 11:38 PM
When I try to access the 1901 census through TNA I get a timeout message.

Peter Goodey
19-12-2005, 8:18 AM
I'm afraid I'm clean out of 1901 credits. Perhaps you're not being specific enough.

Try Search...Advanced Search...Additional Place Details and enter
Surname MARKE
County STAFFORD
Civil Parish WOLVERHAMPTON

That throws up just the one family.

Geoffers
19-12-2005, 8:47 AM
Have you tried the overseas indexes?
This suggestion and where to locate them, along with another suggestion about finding British Births in Switzerland has been put on the other thread created by Sam

Geoffers

Jo Simpsons
19-12-2005, 1:03 PM
I looked on Ancestry for them. they are transcribed as Martie
RG13/2679 Folio 86 Page 18.
Jo :)

swiggin74
19-12-2005, 2:29 PM
Thanks very much Jo.

Peter Goodey
19-12-2005, 8:38 PM
"This suggestion and where to locate them, along with another suggestion about finding British Births in Switzerland has been put on the other thread created by Sam"

Well, geoffers, perhaps when he or she acknowledges it, we'll start paying attention to this thread again :cool:

swiggin74
19-12-2005, 9:06 PM
Sorry for the delay. I don't know how to go about seaching the overseas index. Is it at TNA, do I have to go in person? I've never really worked out the National Archives website. I find it hard to search for info on the website.

Geoffers
19-12-2005, 9:20 PM
I don't know how to go about seaching the overseas index. Is it at TNA, do I have to go in person? I've never really worked out the National Archives website. I find it hard to search for info on the website.
The overseas births mentioned (plus other records) are on a pay-per-view web-site 1837 online. You can just clink on the link to see what types of records they hold without paying or registering - but you do have to pay to view the actual indexes themselves.

Geoffers

swiggin74
19-12-2005, 9:39 PM
Thanks Geoffers,

I've had a look on there and searched the index, but no joy I'm afraid. I wonder whether, when he moved to the UK, he anglicised his names? I mean they don't sound Swiss. If his family were English and living there for some reason then surely the consular records would have shown him up. I looked at the Naturalisation records at TNA but no joy. Do they hold all of the naturalisation records, or are some held more locally?

Peter Goodey
19-12-2005, 10:27 PM
As I understand it you've got one record saying Italy (BS) and one saying Switzerland (SS). Is that right? If so it's not really very conclusive.

If he's not in the overseas records then maybe he wasn't a British Subject. And if he really was Swiss, you don't really know what sort of surname to look for (French? German? Italian?). All I can suggest is that Markee is a funny sort of name to choose if he were anglicising something. This might suggest that Markee is an English corruption of something that sounds close to that.

You say there are no possible candidates in the naturalisation records? Apart from plugging on looking for more evidence in the censuses, I'm afraid I'm running short of ideas.

swiggin74
19-12-2005, 10:38 PM
Hello, thanks for the help.

I have one record saying Switzerland BS and one saying Switzerland SS. The Italy connection came from his grand daughter who thought he may have originated from the Italian border. Maybe swiss Italian? I've had contact with a swiss genealogist who says that Markee is not a Swiss name, although there are Marki, Marquis etc. His father's name was Joseph, again a very English sounding name. I can't find a Joseph Markee on any census records. Still I shall keep plugging on.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Peter Goodey
19-12-2005, 11:45 PM
"His father's name was Joseph, again a very English sounding "John and Joseph may well just be the English equivalents of the corresponding French, German or Italian names.

Geoffers
20-12-2005, 7:52 AM
I wonder whether, when he moved to the UK, he anglicised his names? I mean they don't sound Swiss.What 'sounds' Swiss though? His family could have a surname from one of several roots. If he wasn't born in Siwtzerland to a British family, then I would guess his surname has been anglicized; the problem is, from what? Have you tried searching TNA's catalogue just using his forename and Switzerland (and the department/sries code HO) to see if that throws up any possibilities? You need to look at those responses which have codes beginning with either HO1 or HO144.



If his family were English and living there for some reason then surely the consular records would have shown him up.
Only if the birth had been registered with the consulate in question.

continued....

Geoffers
20-12-2005, 7:53 AM
part 2....


If his family were English and living there for some reason then surely the consular records would have shown him up.
Only if the birth had been registered with the consulate in question.


I looked at the Naturalisation records at TNA but no joy. Do they hold all of the naturalisation records, or are some held more locally?
To the best of my knowledge, they hold them all - but not everyone sought British citizenship. See TNA's research guide for further help:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=242

Geoffers

swiggin74
20-12-2005, 8:00 AM
Many Thanks for the advice. I will have another look at TNA.

susan-w
20-12-2005, 8:36 AM
If you look at the 1880 census for the US on familysearch.org, there are several Markeys and variations that were born in Switzerland, so it might be an Anglicization of a Swiss name. They might even be relatives, so might be worth checking out. :)

swiggin74
20-12-2005, 6:35 PM
Thanks, I'll have a look.