Benn

[fitzgerc]

One of my ancestors married into the Benn family of East London. They were cab proprietors living in
"Kentish town" near St. Pancras and Camden. Any Benn family members out there for whom this rings a bell? I could solve a few mysteries with some help.
CF

[christanel]

Hello

How about you give the BG sleuths who aren't members of the Benn family a chance to help with your mysteries.

Tell us what you know, (such as full names, birth dates and places,) and what you want to know then we can see if any bricks can be removed from the wall.

Christina

[fitzgerc]

Problem is I know very, very little about the Benns. The 1851 census shows a John Benn and his wife Mary with three kids and it lists his occupation as coachman. It says he was born in Hornsey, Middlesex and is about 48 years old. His marriage certificate in Oct 1855 to my 2X great grandmother, Mary Ann Freed (or Frid) lists him as a widower and cab proprietor. So I'm thinking these two records are the same person. It also lists his father as Charles, a farmer. In 1857, my 2x great grandmother gave birth to my great grandmother and died in childbirth or shortly thereafter. My great grandmother went to live with her mother's family and was there's no indication of what became of her father. I've found various death records that don't quite match up including one in the St. Pancras area where they lived. The only hint is that the address on the birth record was Crawley Mews. Interestingly enough, my cousin found a police log from the 1890's where the policeman talks about a "fine cab proprietor" living on Crawley Mews. I'm pretty sure the son went into the business so this could have been him or his son. Or not. Would love to know more.

[Pam Downes]

After the death of Mary, his second wife, in March quarter 1857 (Pancras registration district) John then married Elizabeth Dale on 21 September 1857 at St Pancras parish church. John a widower, stable keeper, address Crawley Mews, father Charles Benn, a farmer. (Marriage on Ancestry's London marriages.)

The likely 1861 census gives cause for concern as John's wife is called Mary (not Elizabeth), and John's birthplace is now said to be Hertford. But he's living in Kensington (as in 1851, though in neither census is he living in Crawley Mews) and the occupations and birthplaces of the two sons he has living with him are consistent with birthplaces of his children in 1851. RG9/14 folio 17 page 30.

There's a death registration for a John Benn June quarter 1864 Kensington registration district. No age given in the GRO Index though because it's before 1866.

Pam

[pwholt]

There was a DALE family in Southwark which included lots of carmen. Perhaps Elizabeth belonged to them. pwholt

[fitzgerc]

I found the DALE marriage and really wasn't sure about it for the following reason: He was John Benn, but one of the sons was also John Benn. In 1857 the sons I knew about were too young to possibly marry, but given this guy's marriage history I found it not unlikely that there were more people in the household. I got the Crawley Mews address directly from Ellen Freed Benn (my great grandmother's birth record) I also suspected he didn't survive long after all this. Your findings seem to confirm that. He was never mentioned except a last name and Ellen was only about 9 in 1866 so she may never have seen him again.
I'm wondering if there is some sort of record or historical registry of the cab profession in London. Would be great wouldn't it?

[fitzgerc]

Pam,
I've run into a real problem or actually another puzzle. As I verified and entered the new information into Ancestry and examined the new "hints", a connected family tree popped up. This was the Benn tree of someone descended from or related to John Benn's kids from his first marriage. They have the same kids, the same dates and marriages and kids for his various children from that marriage. There is a good and strong data "thru-line" that keeps him with Mary and in Kensington pretty much the entire time.
No Mary Freed, No Elizabeth Dale, no London proper. So now I wonder if I had the right person originally.
Is it possible there were two John Benns, cab drivers whose data matched so closely?
Was he a multiple bigamist?
What is going on here.
Now the trees I looked at were pretty basic. Not a lot of data. So maybe he did have an interlude in London and married for a fourth time. But somehow that seems unlikely. Any suggestions?

[rocala]

What is the connection with East London?

[Pam Downes]

Pam,
I've run into a real problem or actually another puzzle. As I verified and entered the new information into Ancestry and examined the new "hints", a connected family tree popped up. This was the Benn tree of someone descended from or related to John Benn's kids from his first marriage. They have the same kids, the same dates and marriages and kids for his various children from that marriage. There is a good and strong data "thru-line" that keeps him with Mary and in Kensington pretty much the entire time.
No Mary Freed, No Elizabeth Dale, no London proper. So now I wonder if I had the right person originally.
Is it possible there were two John Benns, cab drivers whose data matched so closely?
Was he a multiple bigamist?
What is going on here.
Now the trees I looked at were pretty basic. Not a lot of data. So maybe he did have an interlude in London and married for a fourth time. But somehow that seems unlikely. Any suggestions?

First of all, you need to go back to square one, and examine your records.
It is so easy to find 'a' record and immediately say 'that's mine', only to find several years down the line that it isn't. (Been there, done that.)

Start with your great-grandmother's marriage. Presumably you're happy that you have the correct person through a birth certificate of at least one of her children, and census entries. Tell us those details (especially the census refs), and we'll see if we can pick holes in anything.

The one thing to remember is that not all births were registered prior to 1874, so it's possible that you've got the wrong birth because of that.

And yes it is possible to have two men, same age give or take or year, same place of birth, same occupation, wives and children with the same names and ages. Famous case on BG quite a few years back, and I wish I could find it again to show people.

Pam